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sleeving with a partial fill?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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falcongeorge
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sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:40 pm

I have a block here, it MAY need one sleeve, but I won't know for sure until its bored. It has a mark high up in one cylinder wall, its "iffy" if it will clean up at +030. I plan to do a partial fill. So there's basically two ways I can go about this.
1) bore it +.030, and fill before I hone
2) Fill first, bore it +030, HOPE it cleans up, and if it doesn't, have to install a sleeve in a partially filled block.

Its a 351C, I will be filling it half way up the core plugs, fill material will be Masterflow 885. Thoughts? Pluses and minuses to both approaches?

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by superpursuit » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:01 pm

Bore it first.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by SupStk » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 pm

Is there a reason you can not start with a block that might not need a sleeve?

Anyway, bore and/or sleeve it before doing the fill. Hone after the filler is cured.

Doing a 1/2 fill you probably won't have any issues but you need to watch water passages in filling Clevelands to prevent water blockage
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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by 1972ho » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:27 pm

I say fill it before you have it bored because it will help stabilize the cylinder walls any way,plus it you bore it after it has been filled it may distort the cylinder walls slightly.There is a sight called 351c.net on Facebook with plenty of cleveland people doing the same thing.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by KnightEngines » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:40 am

Sleeve it, then fill it, wait at least 7 days for the fill to cure then bore it.
A sleeve done right is just as good if not better than the parent metal.
If you have to sleeve it after filling & boring it you'll struggle to get the bores either side of the sleeve round, may as well sleeve it now & know it's good.
Being a clevo bore it only .020" if you can.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 am

falcongeorge wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:40 pm
I have a block here, it MAY need one sleeve, but I won't know for sure until its bored. It has a mark high up in one cylinder wall, its "iffy" if it will clean up at +030. I plan to do a partial fill. So there's basically two ways I can go about this.
1) bore it +.030, and fill before I hone
2) Fill first, bore it +030, HOPE it cleans up, and if it doesn't, have to install a sleeve in a partially filled block.

Its a 351C, I will be filling it half way up the core plugs, fill material will be Masterflow 885. Thoughts? Pluses and minuses to both approaches?
I think, in the end result, it will make very little difference...
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falcongeorge
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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 am

SupStk wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 pm
Is there a reason you can not start with a block that might not need a sleeve?

Have you tried to find a decent std bore cleveland block lately, even with 7 good holes? Not easy.
Last edited by falcongeorge on Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:19 am

Thanks guys. I think I will bore it, fill, hone. Knight makes a good point, I will think about that. I will really give it a close inspection, maybe just go ahead and sleeve the bad hole right from the beginning, but the consensus is bore, sleeve if necessary, then fill, and that's the way I was leaning before I asked.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:25 am

SupStk wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 pm
Is there a reason you can not start with a block that might not need a sleeve?

Anyway, bore and/or sleeve it before doing the fill. Hone after the filler is cured.

Doing a 1/2 fill you probably won't have any issues but you need to watch water passages in filling Clevelands to prevent water blockage
I'm going halfway up the core holes because the OEM block drains are just above that line(convenience), the bottom of the head bolt bosses are above that. The issue with blocking flow in clevelands occurs when you fill past the bottom of the head bolt bosses

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by SupStk » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:41 pm

falcongeorge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 am
SupStk wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 pm
Is there a reason you can not start with a block that might not need a sleeve?

Have you tried to find a decent std bore cleveland block lately, even with 7 good holes? Not easy.
Have a standard 351c block, it's yours for $300 plus the ride.
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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by Krooser » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:55 pm

Now that we are on the subject how do you guys go about doing the block fill? Pour one side while the deck is flat and parallel to the floor? Wait 24 hours to do the other side?

I ask because I may do a short fill in my SBM as it's almost it's turn at the machine shop.
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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by SupStk » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:07 pm

Krooser wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:55 pm
Now that we are on the subject how do you guys go about doing the block fill? Pour one side while the deck is flat and parallel to the floor? Wait 24 hours to do the other side?

I ask because I may do a short fill in my SBM as it's almost it's turn at the machine shop.
Thats the way I do it. After the pour go over the block with an air chisel using a blunt bit. That works any air bubbles and pockets out. Also torque a head on the side thats just been filled and leave it on until the filler is cured.
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falcongeorge
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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:56 pm

SupStk wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:41 pm
falcongeorge wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:13 am
SupStk wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 pm
Is there a reason you can not start with a block that might not need a sleeve?

Have you tried to find a decent std bore cleveland block lately, even with 7 good holes? Not easy.
Have a standard 351c block, it's yours for $300 plus the ride.
Hahaha! I'm in Canada, "the ride" will be about $500!! :shock: :lol: Thanks for the kind offer though.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by falcongeorge » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:59 pm

SupStk wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:07 pm
Krooser wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:55 pm
Now that we are on the subject how do you guys go about doing the block fill? Pour one side while the deck is flat and parallel to the floor? Wait 24 hours to do the other side?

I ask because I may do a short fill in my SBM as it's almost it's turn at the machine shop.
Thats the way I do it. After the pour go over the block with an air chisel using a blunt bit. That works any air bubbles and pockets out. Also torque a head on the side thats just been filled and leave it on until the filler is cured.
Pretty much same here, except they say not to vibrate Masterflow 885 beyond some tapping with a hammer.

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Re: sleeving with a partial fill?

Post by russxr67 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:25 pm

If you are going to fill a Cleveland block do it until the mix runs out of the front water pump outlets with the block levelled.
Have the block cleaned ,fill it then do the final machining.

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