Remember the Ford 510" budget builds?

[PackardV8]

Way back before Chicom stroker cranks were so readily available, a popular boat engine was a Ford 460" bored .060" for Keith Black hypereutectics, the crank offset ground to 4.150" for BBC 6.8" rods and just a good valve job on the iron heads. Some of those are still running.

If you were building something similar today, who offers the most cost-effective complete rotating assembly? Is the aftermarket cast Chicom crank any better/stronger than the offset ground Ford?

What cam for boat/street 5,000 RPM power peak?

[swampbuggy]

Good afternoon Jack, would not Scat be hard to beat ? Mark H.

[ProPower engines]

Basic cast crank with 4.140 stroke is just under $400.
being purpose built shaft seems better option then a offset grind because of the consistent casting in the counter weight areas making them easier to balance to some extent.

Seems the extra work to grind the extra stroke and journal width to use a BBC rod is about the same end cost.

[englertracing]

Why not bump the stroke more?
That was probably max for the offset.
Whats max for block clearance?

[frnkeore]

You can get Scat, cast cranks, with strokes of, 4.15,4.30 & 4.50, for $412.50 on Ebay.

[Schurkey]

What cam for boat/street 5,000 RPM power peak?

Out-drive, jet, direct-drive, or V-drive?

Out-drives are sensitive to idle speed. They're unhappy engaging gear if the idle speed it too high. Some get around this with a momentary switch that retards timing during out-drive engagement.

Jets have absolutely no need for low-rpm torque. A Briggs & Stratton could spin one at 1500 rpm; and it doesn't take more than 25 hp to spin at 2K. Everything a jet needs is at the mid- and upper RPM range; provided it idles well enough to not piss-off the operator.

Direct drive and V-drive can absorb some power at low rpm, depending on how they're geared and prop'ed.

[ProPower engines]

Isky has a few real good options for BBF stuff. They are custom as the LSA is wider then the std. shelf cam choices
There is a few I have used that are good from 1500-5500 very strong low and mid range power.
Also depends on solid or hyd. but regardless its 3 days for custom grinds as the lSA needs to be at least 114-117 to keep from inhaling water through the exhaust system and smooth drive engagement with lower idle speeds of about 750-900 depending on flywheel weight and carb.

[SupStk]

Used to build BBF strokers into pickup motors. Offset grind the crank for cast Pontiac rods and forged TRW 403 Olds pistons.

With the low cost rotating assemblies available, I wouldn't do it anymore.

[dannobee]

Is it really in a boat? I helped put together a BBC for a coworker's V-drive boat. Big cam, big heads, single plane intake. It ran great, but it wouldn't idle below about 1000rpm, and with the V-drive people were constantly bitching that we were going too fast in the no wake zones, at the lowest idle speed that we could get it to run.

Be careful, you might get a ticket.

[falcongeorge]

I have never done it myself, but FWIW, back in the eighties before Chi-com stroker kits were a "thing", I was told that some of the local 460 ford guys used the 2.25 journal Buick 400/430/455 rods for this. The Buick rods were narrower than the 385 rods, so they would lay a bead of weld on the sides of the rod and re-machine them for side clearance, but they could get them out to 500 ci, that was a BIG motor in the eighties. Probably more hassle than its worth nowadays, but you asked, and that's what I was told.

[Paul Kane]

Way back before Chicom stroker cranks were so readily available, a popular boat engine was a Ford 460" bored .060" for Keith Black hypereutectics, the crank offset ground to 4.150" for BBC 6.8" rods and just a good valve job on the iron heads. Some of those are still running.

If you were building something similar today, who offers the most cost-effective complete rotating assembly? Is the aftermarket cast Chicom crank any better/stronger than the offset ground Ford?

What cam for boat/street 5,000 RPM power peak?

The OEM Ford 385 Series cast crankshafts are made of nodular iron, while the offshore cast crankshafts are made of a cast steel. While both materials have their particular attributes, I have a personal preference for offset stroking the OEM cranks in part from my Ford bias, but also in part because of the abuse we subject them to and my belief that the nodular iron is better suited for that extreme abuse. This includes utilizing stock 460 blocks and offset stroked cast cranks in blown alcohol drag racing engines making 4-figure horsepower.

In regards to boats, one friend of mine runs an offset stroked 460 cast nodular crank at 4.125" stroke, made 800 BHP on the dyno, 950 HP with the nitrous, wide open throttle down the Colorado River for minutes at a time, for ten years with 0 (zero) problems.

Other known successful applications include up to 10,000 rpm truck pulling engines (with short stroke), 1700+ HP dyno numbers with the stock cast crank, and customers of mine who claim more power than that in their race cars but I suppose I cannot verify that. Nonetheless, the capability of the OEM Ford 460 cast crank is irrefutable.

As noted above in this thread the offset stroker combos are near-endless, thanks to the large rod journal which enables all kinds of clever and creative combinations. The Olds piston deal, the Pontiac rods, and of course the BBC rods, and the list goes on.

Long before the cookie-cutter stroker kits, it was not uncommon to offset stroke 460 cranks to as much as 4.25" with a 2.100 SBC journal. This is usually an aluminum rod deal as steel rods of adequate length for the 10.300" deck block are not plentiful on the cheap even today.

Historically, one of the earliest popular stroker deals was Drew Backlund's 540, which was made by using the Ford 240-6 cylinder rod and an OEM crank stroked to 4.22". The 540's displacement comes also from the OEM block being bored 0.140" over to 4.50" (another notable capability of the OEM 460 block). Dates back to the 1990's.

The first commercially available 460 stroker kit of which I am aware was offered by Lunati. It used an offset stroked OEM cast crankshaft, the BBC 6.535" con rod, and a Taylor piston with a 1.67-ish compression height.

As far as a 5000 rpm engine goes, the 2-bolt block is fine and the offshore cookie-cutter stroker kits are probably the most cost effective. How you cam such an engine depends on a lot of variables, including application, cylinder heads, etc, but I'll say this much: There are virtually no shelf cams out there which have such a profile that I find them a great choice over a custom grind (in the performance builds we usually do). This is because a cam with a larger split favoring the exhaust is usually necessary and rare is the shelf cam with more than a 10-degree split.

[Schurkey]

The OEM Ford 385 Series cast crankshafts are made of nodular iron, while the offshore cast crankshafts are made of a cast steel.

ChiCom cranks are not "cast steel". "Cast steel" is a deceptive description for nodular cast iron. Eagle admitted their "cast steel" cranks have "high nodularity"; which implies too much carbon to be called "steel". Steel has about two percent carbon, or less. "Cast iron" tends to have considerably more than 2% carbon, and Eagle says their "cast steel" has MORE carbon than "nodular iron" which means their product CAN NOT be "steel" by definition. In other words, they're lying.

"For entry-level cast cranks, increasing the carbon content in proportion to iron improves strength," says Alan Davis of Eagle Specialty Products. The most basic cranks are cast iron, which typically have a tensile strength of about 70,000 to 80,000 psi. Slightly increasing the carbon content of iron produces nodular iron, resulting in a tensile strength of roughly 95,000 psi. Both materials are used extensively by the OEs, but won't quite cut it for more serious aftermarket stroker crank applications. Commonly used in entry-level aftermarket crankshafts, cast steel has greater carbon content than nodular iron, and a tensile strength of about 105,000 psi.

Steel (REAL "steel", not "lying-Communist-Collaborator steel") is difficult to cast.

IF this country had a functional Federal Trade Commission, these Communist-Collaborator lies would be dealt with.

[piston guy]

No one yet has addressed the fact that "offshore" parts are made form recycled car parts WE (used to) send over there. How do you get a material certification on that? Ford's cranks are made from raw iron ore and lab tested for material quality. When Ford says noulaer iron IT IS.
One large "importer" of offshore engine parts told me "there is no such thing as a "scrap finished product" in China , only those that cost less.

[dwilliams]

Historically, one of the earliest popular stroker deals was Drew Backlund's 540, which was made by using the Ford 240-6 cylinder rod and an OEM crank stroked to 4.22".

I did some 460 strokers with 240 rods; apparently more than one machine or setup was used for doing the oil holes in the crank; about one out of four would break through to air in the #4 rod throw. The ones that didn't probably didn't have much metal there, but I never had a come-back on one, and most of those were mud-bog motors that spent a lot of time up at red line.

It was a buttload of grinding, and once the import cranks got cheap it wasn't worth it any more. Same as cutting Cleveland cranks down to fit 302s, 400 cranks to fit 351s, etc. I grew to hate those hours standing there at the crank grinder.