Anti-seize on spark plugs with aluminum heads?

[Dave Koehler]

I have been through the drop of oil and the anti seize.
I came to the conclusion that on a drag car it is not needed.
The head is plenty warm when you check plugs and comes out easily.
If I feel like using something it is that drop of oil.

[FredWinterburn]

I used Permatex brand anti-seize about 15 years ago with new plugs on a Rover V8. When I went to pull the plugs 3 years later the anti seize had turned into something like concrete. It was a devil to get the plugs out without stripping the threads. I was a good hour and a half working them slowly to avoid stripping the threads. I did the same on my Jeep that year with a cast iron head and although it still turned to concrete after roughly 4 years, it was easier to get the plugs out without damage. Maybe I had a bad batch of anti-seize, but I will never use it again. Just some oil off the dipstick. Fred

[Kevin Johnson]

I used Permatex brand anti-seize about 15 years ago with new plugs on a Rover V8. When I went to pull the plugs 3 years later the anti seize had turned into something like concrete. It was a devil to get the plugs out without stripping the threads. I was a good hour and a half working them slowly to avoid stripping the threads. I did the same on my Jeep that year with a cast iron head and although it still turned to concrete after roughly 4 years, it was easier to get the plugs out without damage. Maybe I had a bad batch of anti-seize, but I will never use it again. Just some oil off the dipstick. Fred

That almost sounds like someone put Bars Leak Copper into a different container. The sodium silicate would set up like rock. WAG

[Schurkey]

Champion part number 2612. Gen-You-Wine Champion spark plug anti-seize.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... iseize.php



Also note the "comment" at the web site l linked to:

I just talked to the Tech Support guys at Lycoming and I was told that the factory uses Loctite C5-A copper anti-seize. Ref: Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1042AG Use a copper-based anti-seize compound or engine oil on spark plug threads starting two full threads from the electrode, but DO NOT use a graphite-based compound.

For the record, I've been using the Loctite/Permatex copper "C5-A" on spark plugs for at least a decade, probably longer.

[Schurkey]

NGK's take on anti-seize, may not apply to other brands

1. Anti-seize

NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver- or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage

So they plate the plug threads with magic. What do you do the second time you screw them into a head?

My Trailblazer came with the expected AC plugs. The plugs are made by NGK, then put in an AC box. I pulled the plugs at 90K miles, and all six "snapped" so loud it was frightening when they broke loose. It flipped the reverse lever on my ratchet on a couple of those plugs. Installed dry, of course. I inspected the plugs, tightened the gap about one or two thousandths back to spec...and screwed 'em right back in, this time with some anti-seize. When I replaced them at 160K miles, they threaded out nicely.

Who would have ever guessed that plugs would go 160K+ miles? Not me. I'm old enough to remember plug changes every 12K.

[enigma57]

I've always put a few drops of WD-40 on plug threads before install. Been doing this since '63. Never a problem whether iron or aluminum heads. Lubricates threads without any adverse effects on grounding. Have never used anti-sieze on plugs, so cannot speak to that.

Best regards,

Harry

[midnightbluS10]

I have never been a fan of any metallic base lubricant on plugs purely from the tracking perspective. It works for those that know how to make it work.

Over time i have found sometimes telling a person with a seemingly skill set how to do something, and then seen it performed in a manner that begs the old Max Smart question 'what was it after "Now listen carefully"'. I could tell the story of a person i did work for telling me how he hung his motorcycle upside down in a small shed with nothing more than ropes and knots to retrieve lost cam bearing rollers from the bottom end, this was after him being told to use a full contact blind bearing puller, his "mate" told him a cheap two legged puller was exactly the same thing...Apparently i was still somehow responsible as i said the job could be done in situ.

The plating on a new plug is considered the lubricant, although i put one drop of oil on every plug i install at a build.

I have on disassembly of old engines had some plugs that are stupid tight, You would think it was a jesus nut. There is a spec for these things!

Cheers.

You'd be surprised. A ex-buddy of mine use to pull the plugs out if his little 4 cyl Focus like he was breathing air. Super hot. Ice cold. Doesn't matter. He'd pull em loose when he got somewhere as soon as he got there, engine hot. When he put them back in, he cranked em down as tight as he could get em every single time. You'd think he had a carb & points as much as he was under the hood messing with stuff that didn't need messing with.

We're talking a complete stock 4 cyl that he put an adjustable fpr on, then swapped on a MAF sensor from a V8 Mustang because "it would flow more air". Forget the fact that it likely wasnt scaled correctly for his ecu or however that works. The only thing he did to the car was put on a homemade cold air kit, a Chinese header, and wayyyyy oversized exhaust.

I tried & tried to tell him stuff but he never would listen to me until something went wrong. Then he'd come ask my advice since I'm an actual technician. He's one of the most stubborn people I ever met.

[modok]

It all makes sense IMO
Steel on aluminum, just on a basic level.....
Normal anti-seize IS a good choice of lubricant for that material combination, HOWEVER, it needs some level of surface roughness to work.
Rolled threads with very smooth plating is actually NOT the right surface for it.

SOOT also works well. Which is interesting. Used motor oil could potentially work better than fresh.

Aluminum has a ability to "creep", which can result in being more stuck over time.

[hoodeng]

You won't win Midnight, there are people out there that can turn anything into something the manufacturer could never have imagined.
And ,,,, look for 1,Warranty 2,help 3,revenge.

There are a lot of guys on here that work within the industry that have story's that even the manufacturers could not believe, maybe we should start a new section just for the legends of destruction!

Here are a few crankpins from an early 90's series engine,some broke for the owner, some owners broke them! but this is getting off topic.

Cheers.

[Alaskaracer]

I've never used anti-seize on my stuff and never will. I pull plugs every pass and sometimes when cold to change them out. Not one time have I ever had one stick, drag, or do anything other than come out easily, iron or aluminum. Same goes for my street vehicles and lawn mower.

[hoodeng]

I would say plug lube pretty much relates to street use where the thing is in for tens of thousands [up to 100,000 kilometers] of kilometers in a harsh environment undisturbed, these are also single used products where the factory coating is considered adequate for this purpose. If a manufacturer wants a additional lube on installation it will be because they have found with their product a trend in difficulty servicing that part and have specified a rectification to be applied at installation. Plugs in a aviation environment see some of the worst environment conditions.The one drop of oil on a plug or whatever works best for you still stands here as the plug is not going to be cycled.

One thing i have found over years is plug to thread fit [alloy head] that was quite loose on disassembly and noted there was no thread evidence of the plug being cycled many times and worn that way, note has also been taken that the head thread was clean and relatively bright but the clearance has been excessive in my book, on discussion with the owner about the condition and asking them if the head had been serviced at any time and the fit noted by them. Invariably they say the head had been serviced and that they noted the plug fit afterwards as well themselves... The problem here has probably arisen by someone chasing the thread with a commonly available tap which is a C3 clearance tap, the tap i use on head threads is C1 ,the first thing i notice is the only thing removed is carbon without any parent metal.

Race engines may as well have a wing nut on the plug for the amount of times they are cycled, there is no time for them to react with their environment, and the head thread becomes quite polished.

A note here that if thread repair is mandated ,best is weld and re tap, second is Time-Sert [very good] last is Heli-Coil, they can move.

Cheers.

[midnightbluS10]

NGK's take on anti-seize, may not apply to other brands

1. Anti-seize

NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver- or chrome-colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage

So they plate the plug threads with magic. What do you do the second time you screw them into a head?

My Trailblazer came with the expected AC plugs. The plugs are made by NGK, then put in an AC box. I pulled the plugs at 90K miles, and all six "snapped" so loud it was frightening when they broke loose. It flipped the reverse lever on my ratchet on a couple of those plugs. Installed dry, of course. I inspected the plugs, tightened the gap about one or two thousandths back to spec...and screwed 'em right back in, this time with some anti-seize. When I replaced them at 160K miles, they threaded out nicely.

Who would have ever guessed that plugs would go 160K+ miles? Not me. I'm old enough to remember plug changes every 12K.

Well I've never pulled out any NGK plug to find the coating missing. So I'd just screw it right back in.

You think that, was something, wait until you try to break the head bolts loose on that Trailblazer. LOL! I thought I broke every bolt because they snapped so loudly when they cracked loose. Nope. I only broke 3 and 1 came out with the 2 pieces still attached by 0.5mm of thread. The other 2 took about 5 mins to remove with a drill and ez out.

I've read about some guys breaking every single headbolt. They're known to break upon removal. It's quite common.

[Geoff2]

Another factor is the threads in the heads. Tolerances vary. If the thread is 'tight', then the plugs might resist being removed no matter what, if anything, was put on the threads.

If the threads in the heads are on the loose side, anti seize would be a good idea in alum heads to protect the threads.

[cardo0]

More recently I've become more interested in heat transfer and I like this product from Dow Corning (Dow Corning 340): https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com/sil ... -tube.html

It does dry up so you need to clean the plug and threads in the heads before reapplying if you remove the plugs. But it will lubricate for the installation when new.

[digger]

Seems to be a big market for products that address problems that don’t exist