Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines

[hoffman900]

Amazing we are talking about an engine that runs between 8000 and 9000. Why people think the Normal engine is even close really has me flabbergasted.

What's "the normal engine"? What are you even talking about? You think RPM is what determines the needs for squirters? Why? What, makes it apply to one engine but not "the normal engine", whatever that is?

As in the typical 1/4 per mile at a time running from 9.50 to 6.50. That's all.

I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…

[digger]

What's "the normal engine"? What are you even talking about? You think RPM is what determines the needs for squirters? Why? What, makes it apply to one engine but not "the normal engine", whatever that is?

As in the typical 1/4 per mile at a time running from 9.50 to 6.50. That's all.

I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…

Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.

[hoffman900]

As in the typical 1/4 per mile at a time running from 9.50 to 6.50. That's all.

I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…

Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.

I’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.

[digger]

I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…

Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.

I’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.

People will pick the lower hanging fruit first, at the moment the lower hanging fruit keeps replenishing. eventually it will trickle down and it will catch on but 20years seems about the norm.

[hoffman900]

Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.

I’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.

People will pick the lower hanging fruit first, at the moment the lower hanging fruit keeps replenishing. eventually it will trickle down and it will catch on but 20years seems about the norm.

Piston oil squirters have been a necessary item in other, non drag racing applications for 40 years. It’s not a new technology.

[In-Tech]

I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…

Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.

I’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.

I feel ya brutha, it seems there is no content to many of these conversations. Earlier there was talk about the angle and acceptable windage, a good conversation to have.

One thing I noticed was the link that was trying to make me accecpt some other third party software before I could even view. Even Accept is a nomenclature here of non willingness. I'm old school so I have all my stuff to alert me when things are trying to take over my 'puter. The Mahle document was a great read.

[4sfed]

For me, the piston temperature is about piston strength. Aluminum loses strength rapidly above 200 degrees C . . . and according to the previously referenced paper from Mahle, page 19, figure 1.4, a typical temperature for the lower surface of the top ring groove is 227 degrees. ASM lists the yield strength of 2618 at 303 MPa at 150 degrees, 180 MPa at 205 degrees, and 62 MPA at 260 degrees. The strength of 4032 is even less at 228, 62 and 38.

[vector006]

Are there any piston features that make oil squirters more effective?

I heard a rumor that the weird grid pattern on the bottom of an LS9 piston potentially exists for the purpose of giving oil a longer contact time and potentially improving cooling...

I REALLY want to call B.S. on that one, but what to do I know?


[Edit] THE PLOT THICKENS! Ford Ecotech also with squirters and also with "waffle" pattern on bottom of piston....



The great piston bottom texture debate? -Is a burr finish on a piston bottom best for oil squirters?

Adam

The grid texture you're seeing there has nothing to do with cooling. For example, the Ecotech piston you reference uses a saltcore casting method to construct an oil chamber inside the piston for cooling; the piston cooling jet (PCJ) sprays into the hole and the piston essentially becomes a "pump" as the acceleration forces push the oil through to the discharge side of the piston. A lot of times you see grid textures on castings it has to do with NVH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdij1WyJJ6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWdkh5BGFPc

[Racer71]

My RYR engine had what appeared to be Holley jets on the mains to squirt oil at bottoms of pistons as well as forced pin oiling through the rod beam on the Carrillo rods.

[Momus]

A lot of times you see grid textures on castings it has to do with NVH.



Nothing to do with NVH.

It is where a casting chill was placed.

[bthomas]

I see where a lot of folks have recommended a (+)10% volume pump when adding oil squirters to an engine.

The oem lsa pump is (+)33% volume over a stock ls6 pump.
Lsa oil squirters are also 42psi pressure activated.

Is the 10% really enough?

Did gm unnecessarily oversize the oil pump on lsa engines?

[Tom68]

I see where a lot of folks have recommended a (+)10% volume pump when adding oil squirters to an engine.

The oem lsa pump is (+)33% volume over a stock ls6 pump.
Lsa oil squirters are also 42psi pressure activated.

Is the 10% really enough?

Did gm unnecessarily oversize the oil pump on lsa engines?

and I've always wondered how SJ SBCs got by with the rod cap piston oilers, still they were timed squirts not constant flow. Implies that the large journal small blocks had plenty of pump since no rod cap piston oiling.