I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…af2 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:05 pmAs in the typical 1/4 per mile at a time running from 9.50 to 6.50. That's all.midnightbluS10 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 7:48 pmWhat's "the normal engine"? What are you even talking about? You think RPM is what determines the needs for squirters? Why? What, makes it apply to one engine but not "the normal engine", whatever that is?
Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
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Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
-Bob
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
Most people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 pmI wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…af2 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:05 pmAs in the typical 1/4 per mile at a time running from 9.50 to 6.50. That's all.midnightbluS10 wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 7:48 pm
What's "the normal engine"? What are you even talking about? You think RPM is what determines the needs for squirters? Why? What, makes it apply to one engine but not "the normal engine", whatever that is?
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Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
I’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.digger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:21 pmMost people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 pmI wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…
-Bob
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
People will pick the lower hanging fruit first, at the moment the lower hanging fruit keeps replenishing. eventually it will trickle down and it will catch on but 20years seems about the norm.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:28 pmI’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.digger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:21 pmMost people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 pm
I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…
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Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
Piston oil squirters have been a necessary item in other, non drag racing applications for 40 years. It’s not a new technology.digger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:17 pmPeople will pick the lower hanging fruit first, at the moment the lower hanging fruit keeps replenishing. eventually it will trickle down and it will catch on but 20years seems about the norm.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:28 pmI’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.
-Bob
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
I feel ya brutha, it seems there is no content to many of these conversations. Earlier there was talk about the angle and acceptable windage, a good conversation to have.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:28 pmI’ve been here under a different screen name since 2006. Bracket engines haven’t changed much. Sure the heads are better, and the cams, but it’s the same thing over and over again. If you’re building a bracket engine, then this thread probably doesn’t apply to you, but a lot of people road race, circle track, land speed, off road / Dakar type trucks, drift, mx, flat track, boats, etc. All these conversations turn to the same thing “well that doesn’t matter for the typical bracket racer”. No crap, but it’s been 16 years of that argument and I don’t see bracket engines pushing the boundaries of what is possible or resulting in expanding anyone’s knowledge to build faster and better engines.digger wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:21 pmMost people are involved with those kinds of engines and with limited development budgets. While it’s good to look at higher development stuff you can’t blame people for not wanting to adopt all the latest tech.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 pm
I wish this site looked beyond the typical bracket engine…
One thing I noticed was the link that was trying to make me accecpt some other third party software before I could even view. Even Accept is a nomenclature here of non willingness. I'm old school so I have all my stuff to alert me when things are trying to take over my 'puter. The Mahle document was a great read.
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl
-Carl
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
For me, the piston temperature is about piston strength. Aluminum loses strength rapidly above 200 degrees C . . . and according to the previously referenced paper from Mahle, page 19, figure 1.4, a typical temperature for the lower surface of the top ring groove is 227 degrees. ASM lists the yield strength of 2618 at 303 MPa at 150 degrees, 180 MPa at 205 degrees, and 62 MPA at 260 degrees. The strength of 4032 is even less at 228, 62 and 38.
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
The grid texture you're seeing there has nothing to do with cooling. For example, the Ecotech piston you reference uses a saltcore casting method to construct an oil chamber inside the piston for cooling; the piston cooling jet (PCJ) sprays into the hole and the piston essentially becomes a "pump" as the acceleration forces push the oil through to the discharge side of the piston. A lot of times you see grid textures on castings it has to do with NVH.NewbVetteGuy wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 7:41 pm Are there any piston features that make oil squirters more effective?
I heard a rumor that the weird grid pattern on the bottom of an LS9 piston potentially exists for the purpose of giving oil a longer contact time and potentially improving cooling...
I REALLY want to call B.S. on that one, but what to do I know?
[Edit] THE PLOT THICKENS! Ford Ecotech also with squirters and also with "waffle" pattern on bottom of piston....
The great piston bottom texture debate? -Is a burr finish on a piston bottom best for oil squirters?
Adam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdij1WyJJ6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWdkh5BGFPc
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
My RYR engine had what appeared to be Holley jets on the mains to squirt oil at bottoms of pistons as well as forced pin oiling through the rod beam on the Carrillo rods.
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
A lot of times you see grid textures on castings it has to do with NVH.
Nothing to do with NVH.
It is where a casting chill was placed.
Nothing to do with NVH.
It is where a casting chill was placed.
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
I see where a lot of folks have recommended a (+)10% volume pump when adding oil squirters to an engine.
The oem lsa pump is (+)33% volume over a stock ls6 pump.
Lsa oil squirters are also 42psi pressure activated.
Is the 10% really enough?
Did gm unnecessarily oversize the oil pump on lsa engines?
The oem lsa pump is (+)33% volume over a stock ls6 pump.
Lsa oil squirters are also 42psi pressure activated.
Is the 10% really enough?
Did gm unnecessarily oversize the oil pump on lsa engines?
Re: Piston oil squirters in NASCAR engines
and I've always wondered how SJ SBCs got by with the rod cap piston oilers, still they were timed squirts not constant flow. Implies that the large journal small blocks had plenty of pump since no rod cap piston oiling.bthomas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:28 pm I see where a lot of folks have recommended a (+)10% volume pump when adding oil squirters to an engine.
The oem lsa pump is (+)33% volume over a stock ls6 pump.
Lsa oil squirters are also 42psi pressure activated.
Is the 10% really enough?
Did gm unnecessarily oversize the oil pump on lsa engines?
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.