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Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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n2omike
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Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by n2omike » Fri May 15, 2020 4:01 pm

Break-in Procedure


Break-in Oils/Science


Oil analysis on 22 different break-in oils, and oils commonly used for break-in.
https://www.speediagnostix.com/totalseal
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... eport1.pdf

From what I can see Lucas 30W break-in oil is a steal at around $31 for a 5 quart jug.
Driven is a really good brand. I believe it use to be Joe Gibbs.
Some break-in oils do not match what Total Seal recommends.

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by steve cowan » Fri May 15, 2020 5:17 pm

thanks for putting those videos up,
speed jr is a wealth of knowledge for sure,i use the Driven BR 30 and think it is excellent.
in this day and age with so much available to us why people still use strange concoctions and oil additives is beyond me.
steve c

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by swampbuggy » Fri May 15, 2020 5:32 pm

Thanks Mike, really enjoyed the videos, Mark H. :D

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by bentvalves » Fri May 15, 2020 6:50 pm

was this from todays webinar that I, without fail managed to miss?

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by rustbucket79 » Fri May 15, 2020 9:21 pm

We use the BR in anything other than a stocker with factory hydraulic roller cam, only complaint is they are pretty proud of their oil. ($$$)

n2omike
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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by n2omike » Fri May 15, 2020 9:21 pm

bentvalves wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:50 pm
was this from todays webinar that I, without fail managed to miss?
Those are about 3 months old. This video is even more recent. Lake Speed Jr. goes to EFI University, and they talk about ring seal and gas ports. They talk about the drilled vertical gas ports as well as lateral ones. They discuss how the lateral ports in pistons have their drawbacks, then announce Total Seal's rings that have the lateral gas ports built into the ring.

Last edited by n2omike on Fri May 15, 2020 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by steve cowan » Fri May 15, 2020 11:38 pm

To continue with my comments from cam thread -
Any non friction modified engine oil can be used for initial startup, ring seal comes with load and heat cycling as shown on dyno video. For people like myself that don't have dyno we just hope for the best I spose..
I don't agree with F-BIRD on using moly slip additive on initial start up as it is a friction modifier the same as I would not use ATF on cylinder walls.
steve c

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by n2omike » Sat May 16, 2020 12:38 pm

steve cowan wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:38 pm
To continue with my comments from cam thread -
Any non friction modified engine oil can be used for initial startup, ring seal comes with load and heat cycling as shown on dyno video. For people like myself that don't have dyno we just hope for the best I spose..
I don't agree with F-BIRD on using moly slip additive on initial start up as it is a friction modifier the same as I would not use ATF on cylinder walls.
Engines have been broken in on the 'wrong' oil and in a less than perfect manner many, many times.
Lots of engines have also broken in with less than perfect ring seal, and have flattened cams as well.

Does EVERY engine that is broken in 'improperly' never gain good ring seal, or flatten lobes? No.
However, for the cost of GOOD break-in oil... it's foolish to not stack the odds in your favor.

Lake Speed Jr. is a lubrication specialist, and Total Seal is one of the better ring manufacturers. They know a LOT more about the topic of break in that we do, and also get tons of feedback from a broad range of builders... so I'd think it would be wise to listen to what they have to say. Lucas 30W break in oil is only around $31 for a 5 quart jug. It's about as cheap as anything else you would dump in. 'Driven' brand is a little more expensive, but also well worth the price.

Many guys who build engines can be very prideful. We like to stick to what we've had good luck with, and don't always like changing our ways. But, if we want to keep up, we still need to listen to the right people, and keep our eyes open for better ways to do things... Else, we're going backwards.

Is there a true reason (outside of pride and being stubborn) to NOT use a proper break-in oil? ...and use the procedure they outline?

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by hoffman900 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:56 pm

n2omike wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 12:38 pm
steve cowan wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 11:38 pm
To continue with my comments from cam thread -
Any non friction modified engine oil can be used for initial startup, ring seal comes with load and heat cycling as shown on dyno video. For people like myself that don't have dyno we just hope for the best I spose..
I don't agree with F-BIRD on using moly slip additive on initial start up as it is a friction modifier the same as I would not use ATF on cylinder walls.
Engines have been broken in on the 'wrong' oil and in a less than perfect manner many, many times.
Lots of engines have also broken in with less than perfect ring seal, and have flattened cams as well.

Does EVERY engine that is broken in 'improperly' never gain good ring seal, or flatten lobes? No.
However, for the cost of GOOD break-in oil... it's foolish to not stack the odds in your favor.

Lake Speed Jr. is a lubrication specialist, and Total Seal is one of the better ring manufacturers. They know a LOT more about the topic of break in that we do, and also get tons of feedback from a broad range of builders... so I'd think it would be wise to listen to what they have to say. Lucas 30W break in oil is only around $31 for a 5 quart jug. It's about as cheap as anything else you would dump in. 'Driven' brand is a little more expensive, but also well worth the price.

Many guys who build engines can be very prideful. We like to stick to what we've had good luck with, and don't always like changing our ways. But, if we want to keep up, we still need to listen to the right people, and keep our eyes open for better ways to do things... Else, we're going backwards.

Is there a true reason (outside of pride and being stubborn) to NOT use a proper break-in oil? ...and use the procedure they outline?
If people are using non-sophisticated rings, bore materials, etc. than what they were doing would probably work.

However, if you want to progress and use modern rings with pretty sophisticated coatings and other modern materials, it will require something different than the old tried and trued. The better tolerances get and the more sophisticated materials get, the more it matters.

You’re not going to do the same thing as some old thick chrome rings to a very thin coated titanium ring.
-Bob

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by steve cowan » Sat May 16, 2020 6:26 pm

i am in the process of piecing together a new dart block 383 sbc,light piston,1.2mm,1.5mm,3mm low tension using a vac pump,this is new territory for me and i have had some good help along the way which i appreciate.
all the latest information is valuable to me.
i will be spending the money on dyno as well to give this engine as best of a chance as possible.
good info on this thread.
steve c

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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by NewbVetteGuy » Mon May 18, 2020 8:15 pm

I think the differences on the extreme end of reducing friction in a running engine with friction modifiers and Total Seal's newest break-in recommendations using things like dry bores coated in their Quick Seat powder DOES make for an interesting comparison.

I think it makes sense that TS is going to optimize for quick and near guaranteed break-in to prevent burning oil and customer complaints and they're not going to care about the rest of the engine components' break-in...

I coated my bores in Quick Seat and have the Driven Break-in oil in it.


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Re: Enging Break-In (From Total Seal Piston Rings)

Post by ProPower engines » Tue May 19, 2020 1:02 am

Yes great info supplied by the guys at Total Seal.
It seems like with the RWB situation buying up several piston manufacturers in the past year has cause issues with ring seal.
They are getting their rings I am told by several of the piston makers from Hastings. While they also make some rings for
total seal the rings supplied bu the piston makers seem to be less then stellar with what they recommend for finishes on the bores for proper seating. I have been talking with the TS guys more then ever to solve ring requirements rather then use the supplies rings with pistons. Even the stock replacement stuff is leaving something to be desired with the reduced radial thickness and in some cased by over .100".
Its funny as Hastings offers 2 ring sets for the same application, Like the tried and true 2M139 set which now has the reduced radial thickness and the 43M5523 set. The latter is a better ring set by far for a stock build which I only use after they cheaped out on the reg. ring sets a few years back.
They are like the old speed pro premium ring sets and they don't require back spacing to fill the top grove to keep the pressure build up the same as the wider ring sets do with out spacing

Again to the guys at Total Seal keep up the good work on the oil and ring tech so we can have less sealing issues in the future =D> =D>
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