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Oil Smoke driving me crazy

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Raybo
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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:26 am

Well Im back for more. This engine is killing me!

I called AFR and they were concerned that I was running a high volume pump. Changed to standard pump. No change.

Then they tell me there can be an issue with oil return from the heads. I pulled the even bank valve cover and stared the engine. Holy smokes one lifter is putting out a tremendous amount of oil and it is not draining. I called comp they had little help to offer. Even so if the heads returned oil properly shouldn't be an issue. So now I've got a few options.

Run oil restrictors, grind a nice ditch in the head along the exhaust side valve cover rail (suggested per AFR tech), move the lifter and see if oil issue follows.

So Im at the point where things are pointing to the stem seals being flooded and sucking oil.

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by BillK » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:00 am

Ray,
One of my customers bought an engine from a pretty well know builder a few years ago. He had what almost sounds like the same exact problem. I went over and looked at it and the intake runners were full of oil. He swapped intake gaskets and did a few other things and finally he put the engine in his truck and took it back to the builder. I cant remember exactly what they ended up finding that fixed it but I will call him Monday AM and ask.

I did a little 305 Chevy stroker a bunch of years back and put one second ring on upside down. It smoked like crazy but the intake runners were not getting oil in them so I don't think that is your problem.
Bill Koustenis
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Raybo
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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:14 am

BillK wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:00 am
Ray,
One of my customers bought an engine from a pretty well know builder a few years ago. He had what almost sounds like the same exact problem. I went over and looked at it and the intake runners were full of oil. He swapped intake gaskets and did a few other things and finally he put the engine in his truck and took it back to the builder. I cant remember exactly what they ended up finding that fixed it but I will call him Monday AM and ask.

I did a little 305 Chevy stroker a bunch of years back and put one second ring on upside down. It smoked like crazy but the intake runners were not getting oil in them so I don't think that is your problem.
Thanks for the help. It’s getting ridiculous.

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Belgian1979 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:55 pm

Raybo wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:26 am
Well Im back for more. This engine is killing me!

I called AFR and they were concerned that I was running a high volume pump. Changed to standard pump. No change.

Then they tell me there can be an issue with oil return from the heads. I pulled the even bank valve cover and stared the engine. Holy smokes one lifter is putting out a tremendous amount of oil and it is not draining. I called comp they had little help to offer. Even so if the heads returned oil properly shouldn't be an issue. So now I've got a few options.

Run oil restrictors, grind a nice ditch in the head along the exhaust side valve cover rail (suggested per AFR tech), move the lifter and see if oil issue follows.

So Im at the point where things are pointing to the stem seals being flooded and sucking oil.
Interested in learning the outcome of this. :D

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:32 pm

Pulled piston 1 and 2. All rings are installed correctly. If the rings never seated would reversion allow that much oil into the intake runner?

1 bearing shows signs of detonation. Not surprised with the amount of oil getting into cylinder.

Seals on heads are correct and they didn’t fall off guides.

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by steve cowan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:10 am

Raybo,
Is it fuming out of breathers or pushing oil out of breathers?
What engine oil did you use on initial startup?
steve c

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:18 am

steve cowan wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:10 am
Raybo,
Is it fuming out of breathers or pushing oil out of breathers?
What engine oil did you use on initial startup?
I get little wisp of vapor out the breathers after it’s up to temp. Hard to even see. I used conventional 10w30 for break in. Castrol or valvoline. I don’t remember.

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by ProPower engines » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:59 am

In 1 of the pic's it looked like the intake port had black soot in two of them side by side.
If thats the case the valves are leaking and combustion is getting up the port.
I had a customer with similar issues and it turned out to be way to much guide clearance. Them positive seals will only do so much and for what its worth it had 3/8 stem seals on 11/32 valve stems. and they were AFR heads. They needed to be touched up and a set of valve seals the correct stem size.

Now think about a ford 390. They have bad oil returns and the oil level in the covers are up to the seals when running anyway. And proper guide clearance and a good quality seal will control the oil for years and years.

Something to think about and check with a guide bore gauge or have it done to confirm clearance.
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by steve cowan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:25 am

i think the engine may have to be disassembled for inspection,as Dave has mentioned guides can wear very quickly,when you take rockers off take note of end of valve stems for float or incorrect geometry,in my opinion the bores would be glazed up now from what you are describing.
steve c

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:43 am

steve cowan wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:25 am
i think the engine may have to be disassembled for inspection,as Dave has mentioned guides can wear very quickly,when you take rockers off take note of end of valve stems for float or incorrect geometry,in my opinion the bores would be glazed up now from what you are describing.
I’m pulling it down now. I don’t see anything out of the ordinary except a copious amount of oil in the intake runners.

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Belgian1979 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:41 pm

Did you do the valve wiggle test? How much play?

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by gmrocket » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:37 pm

On page two of this you said it was figured out, what happened since then?

Did you dry fit the intake to see if you have a big gap somewhere?

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:42 pm

Belgian1979 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:41 pm
Did you do the valve wiggle test? How much play?
More than I’d like to see on a street engine

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:44 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:37 pm
On page two of this you said it was figured out, what happened since then?

Did you dry fit the intake to see if you have a big gap somewhere?
On the run stand it seem to not smoke as much once I resealed the intake. I notice in the vehicle with the engine not level all the oil wants to drain to the rear. Seems to get overwhelmed. Oil was pouring over the VC rail at idle with no VC on

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Re: Oil Smoke driving me crazy

Post by Raybo » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:49 pm

AFR tells me to remove these humps and open the drain back hole.
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