Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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JoePorting
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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The ICE car vs the electric car will come down to the price of electricity vs gasoline. As more people use electric cars and trucks, the price of electricity will go up and the price of gasoline will go down due to the reduction of demand for gasoline. This will have the effect of increasing or continuing the demand for ICE vehicles.

The flip side of this is solar panels on houses to recharge electric cars. If the price of solar panel installs go down, and if electric companies make net metering profitable for consumers, then electric cars will make more economic sense.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:40 am The future of Electric vs ICE will be determined by battery performance.

The ICE is already past the point of diminishing returns for improvement.

Batteries have the possibility of a major breakthrough happening and many billions are being spent right now to accomplish that.

If batteries double in power density, the ICE is over for the vast majority of consumers.

With regards to performance, electric is already ahead.
A supercharged Mustang, Challenger or Camaro is dangerous to operate wide open
A Tesla is easy and more pleasant to operate wide open and has similar performance today.

When batteries weigh half as much, the IC cars will look like typewriters; a mechanical marvel, but unable to compete.
Agree, Jon. I build ICEs just because, but choose a BEV for daily use; no contest. For local use, it's better in every way.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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JoePorting wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am The ICE car vs the electric car will come down to the price of electricity vs gasoline. As more people use electric cars and trucks, the price of electricity will go up and the price of gasoline will go down due to the reduction of demand for gasoline. This will have the effect of increasing or continuing the demand for ICE vehicles.

The flip side of this is solar panels on houses to recharge electric cars. If the price of solar panel installs go down, and if electric companies make net metering profitable for consumers, then electric cars will make more economic sense.
The OEMs that have been making ICE cars for a century have come to the opposite conclusion.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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That's my point,I think the OEM's are making a mistake. I'm guessing five years from now electricity is going to be 2 or 3X more expensive while gasoline will be about the same or alittle higher (oil will probably be in the $50 to $80 a barrel range). Chevrolet was having trouble selling the Volt. I don't know why they think everyone is going to want to go electric overnight. I'm guessing they're looking too hard at Tesla. Tesla has made a nice market niche, but I don't think it's as big as the OEM's think. The fact that Tesla is dropping the price of their cars is telling me that their demand is not expanding at a rate expected.

Of coarse it's a different story if Government forces electric cars on people. California might do that, don't think the other states will.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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JoePorting wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 2:43 am I'm betting that about 3 or 4 years from now they'll be alot of electric cars and trucks sitting on dealers lots unsold. There may be a large market for electric cars and trucks, but I think the ICE market is and will be alot larger than people think and will take alot more time for ICE people to switch over to electric cars and trucks. The outcome will depend a great deal on the price of gasoline vs electricity. But I can see ICE cars/trucks being around for another 50+ years.
Yea, but you also think it won't take much to convert a head you know absolutely zero about to work on a BBC after being told by the person who designed it that There is no pushrod block that has a usable head bolt and water jacket pattern for a well designed DOHC head. #-o [-X
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bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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JoePorting wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am The ICE car vs the electric car will come down to the price of electricity vs gasoline. As more people use electric cars and trucks, the price of electricity will go up and the price of gasoline will go down due to the reduction of demand for gasoline. This will have the effect of increasing or continuing the demand for ICE vehicles.

The flip side of this is solar panels on houses to recharge electric cars. If the price of solar panel installs go down, and if electric companies make net metering profitable for consumers, then electric cars will make more economic sense.
It currently costs about $6-15 to "fill up" the battery on a Tesla at home, depending on battery size. A Tesla X with 100KwH battery costs about $15 to "fill up" at home with stage 2 charging.

I seriously doubt cars will put so much demand for electricity that it will cause a drastic price increase. A house uses a hell of a lot more than a car does and it doesn't happen during housing booms so why would it happen when cars don't use near as much? I think you just don't want to let go of ICE engines so you're trying to rationalize keeping them with any argument you can come up with, whether logical or not.
JC -

bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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midnightbluS10 wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 2:46 am
JoePorting wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am The ICE car vs the electric car will come down to the price of electricity vs gasoline. As more people use electric cars and trucks, the price of electricity will go up and the price of gasoline will go down due to the reduction of demand for gasoline. This will have the effect of increasing or continuing the demand for ICE vehicles.

The flip side of this is solar panels on houses to recharge electric cars. If the price of solar panel installs go down, and if electric companies make net metering profitable for consumers, then electric cars will make more economic sense.
It currently costs about $6-15 to "fill up" the battery on a Tesla at home, depending on battery size. A Tesla X with 100KwH battery costs about $15 to "fill up" at home with stage 2 charging.

I seriously doubt cars will put so much demand for electricity that it will cause a drastic price increase. A house uses a hell of a lot more than a car does and it doesn't happen during housing booms so why would it happen when cars don't use near as much? I think you just don't want to let go of ICE engines so you're trying to rationalize keeping them with any argument you can come up with, whether logical or not.
That’s rich coming from a guy who supports the RPM act.

Maybe you should move into the future yourself 🙄
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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Kazoom wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:15 pm
SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 11:00 am Here are some images of the 4 valve head CAD and foundry tooling, about 10 sand pieces to make one head.
The sand mold is much more complex than a 2-valve pushrod head.

head_as_cast_4.jpg
head_as_cast_3.jpg
base_core_box.jpg
neat stuff
All went into the trash last week.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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JoePorting wrote: Sat May 30, 2020 11:58 am The ICE car vs the electric car will come down to the price of electricity vs gasoline. As more people use electric cars and trucks, the price of electricity will go up and the price of gasoline will go down due to the reduction of demand for gasoline. This will have the effect of increasing or continuing the demand for ICE vehicles.

The flip side of this is solar panels on houses to recharge electric cars. If the price of solar panel installs go down, and if electric companies make net metering profitable for consumers, then electric cars will make more economic sense.
The gasoline argument only holds true if production output stayed the same. As demand drops, so will production. Eventually, enough to close down or convert refineries. When those cards start to fall, gas will become more expensive. In time, it will likely becomes a pricy boutique product.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

Post by GARY C »

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 6:03 pm Over the past 10 years or so, I have built some foundry tooling for a 4 valve cylinderhead for a 5.0@ bore spacing block.
It requires a custom block to finish, a 4.9 bore spacing Ford or 5.0 bore spacing Cadillac are not compatible with the project.

As part of the project, I also have a 5 axis CNC that I set up for head porting, and a camshaft grinder.

Two weeks ago I joined a Silicon Valley start-up project that I expect to take 100% (and more) of my time for the next 5 years.
So I will be moving and need to decide what to do with all of the stuff.

I would prefer that the equipment go to someone that will use it for something somewhat close to what I built it for than go to a machinery dealer or job shop.
The CNCs are tall and require 10 foot high doors.

I am located in Orange CA. I will also be selling the house with a shop in the back.
If someone wanted to move to SoCal and have a shop, this is the easiest on-ramp that will ever exist.

If any of this is something that you might be interested in, and capable of advancing. Drop me an email at jon@schmidtmotorworks.com

All of this will go be over quickly, I have already disposed of about 1/3rd of my equipment, mostly the woodworking stuff.
The foundry goes Sunday.

After that the hard equipment mentioned goes.
This might have gone better in the advertising section, some people get offended when people use the tech forum to sell their self.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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GARY C wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:37 pm This might have gone better in the advertising section, some people get offended when people use the tech forum to sell their self.
I gave most of it away to people that would never be able to afford it.
I paid $2,500 for machinery moving in one case, then helped with wiring.
I hope that isn't too offensive.
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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Going to miss you Jon!Need to find another guy with a CNC in his back yard for small jobs!Good luck.Tom
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Re: Pass-on 4 valve engine project

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tjs44 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:12 pm Going to miss you Jon!Need to find another guy with a CNC in his back yard for small jobs!Good luck.Tom
Thanks, Tom.
I enjoyed making your Ram Air 5 stuff.
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