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Dominator - can't even get it to idle

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

Yep.

MSD 6AL with MSD coil.

MSD Probillet Dist.

Brand new plug wires, all personally inspected and tested prior to connecting.

Initial currently I've played between 16 degrees and 24 degrees.

Currently at 21 degrees.

Engine was previously at 18 degrees initial and all in at 36 degrees a touch under 3000 rpm, so I know it's got 18 degrees mechanical in it.
shoedoos
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by shoedoos »

bump it up to 30 initial and get back to us with the idling results.....
steve cowan
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by steve cowan »

shoedoos wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:26 am bump it up to 30 initial and get back to us with the idling results.....
even more timing if you have to just at idle as to try and isolate the problem,try lowering fuel pressure to 4-4.5psi,
fuel pressure and float level have a influence on idle mixture,
and dont be surprised if you only need the secondry idle screws out a quarter of one turn from closed.
steve c
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

Will do gents later today and advise.

I will
Bump initial timing to 30 degrees
lower fuel pressure to 4-4.5psi
lower float levels. Right not I have primary at exactly half way up sight bowl (QFT recommended) and I have secondary just a tad lower than that. Will bump both down a bit
Geoff2
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Geoff2 »

Just learned this week of ANOTHER MSD Ready to Run dist that failed out of the box. Maybe Ready To Run should be changed to Ready To Replace....
enigma57
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by enigma57 »

Geoff, the more MSD shifts production from Texas to their plant in Mexico, the more of this you will see. The issue is not that parts are not built to same spec...... The issue is that QA / QC down there is loose and defective parts are allowed to get into the wholesale and retail supply system that would have been pulled off the line here in America. That is why their red Blaster II ignition coils have such a bad rep after years of manufacture in Mexico.

And that is why I rely on NOS and remanufactured late '60s to early '80s vintage MSD CD boxes and Mallory Voltmaster II oil filled coils for my own (and family's) builds in my old age. :wink:

Just sayin'......

Harry
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

OK here is the latest update.

Initial timing bumped up to 30 degrees
I put brand new needles and seats in both fuel bowls
I blocked the secondary power valve (did not block the primary - it remains at 25)
I rejetted the secondaries to a 94 jet (up from an 84 jet) due to blocking to power valve...not that it will make any difference at idle
I lowered the float levels in both primary and secondary (Quick Fuel recommends half way up the sight bowl. I'm now at about a 1/4 up the sight bowl)
I also replaced all the gaskets both sides of the metering blocks.
I reduced fuel pressure from 6psi to 5psi

Nothing else changed.
Primary jet's are 80's
IAB = 75
HSAB = 33
IFRs = 35

Now all that said....

New plugs, again just 5 mins of run time to get it up to temp.
Idle only other than 1 very short stab of the throttle as it was about to stall at cold temp.

It's still rich. Plug below.

Having said that it's the cleanest plug I've pulled out so far

I can at least see a tad of grey on the insulator it's not 100% pig rich sooted up. It's still too rich, but this clearly made some difference

Image

Pics below of float levels and the old non fitting gaskets versus the new. Note the gaskets did NOT have the same holes. There was a difference

Primary float level

Image

Secondary float level

Image

Gaskets (red are old...blue are brand new)
See how poorly red fit

Image

Image

Image

Image

finally two gaskets side by side. Note black texta marks on red and blue. They are the 4 holes that are different between the two gaskets. On the hole at lower towards the middle block an orrifice. The other 3 holes didn't block anything. The hole it blocked appears to be the lower IFR port in the metering block. I don't know if this actually has made a difference to air flow through the circuit or not. Either way, it's now running the blue gaskets.

Image

But all said and done, while it's improved I'm still rich.

I am now only 1 turn out on the idle mixture screws. if I turn them in 1/8th a turn more, it will still idle with 3 in 1/8th but when I do the 4th is stalls.

Vacuum is steady at 10in/hg.

I'm thinking I need to go still smaller again on the IFR or bigger on the IAB, but at least we've made some progress (thanks to all who have chimed in).

Of to store to buy some more plugs.
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

oh and this is what I am playing with

Image
shoedoos
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by shoedoos »

as per Steve's earlier comments, throw some more timing at it (if your starter will take the punishment). Go delicate on the mixture screws and close the rear blades some more....

and log this ebay link for later - https://www.ebay.com/itm/222855820783?s ... 1436.l2649
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

I manually timed it first start and it was 42 degrees. yeah the starter sure didn't like that but it fired up, I then used the timing light to get it back to 30 degrees, killed it and started it again.

I will definately need to change the mechanical advance at this level of initial.

Are you suggesting I bump it up to what say 32-34 degrees initial?

Currently at 30 degrees
shoedoos
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by shoedoos »

34 or 36 if the starter will take it....where's your idle rpm at?
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

1100 rpm
shoedoos
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by shoedoos »

in neutral?
Freddie
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by Freddie »

Park
shoedoos
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Re: Dominator - can't even get it to idle

Post by shoedoos »

Side question......has the engine been run in? If not, I'd be getting the carb/timing close and taking the thing for a spin to bed those rings......the revs will probably pull down a hundred or so when in gear. If you don't know where your advance curve starts to creep up, keep the thing around 2000 and give the engine a bit of load.....glazed bores are not fun, and your thing has had quite a bit of fuel through it....
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