Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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riv187
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Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by riv187 »

Hi,
Looking at feedback to next purchase. I have a 400,60 over,,13.8 comp,hillborn injection ,methanol front engine dragster. I weight 1531lbs at the start line. The engine has Engine Quest/EQ 225cc 50cc chamber IRON,2.08/1.6 heads. https://www.onedirt.com/tech/eq-cylinde ... -the-imca/ I estimate with bigger valves and basic bowl blend she's about 288 at .600 lift
For cam it currently has a Elgin solid flat tappet 256/264 @ .050, .537/.557 105 LS . I'm using 1.6 rockers .572/.594 and pistons where fly cut to match it.
The best et is 5.26 130mph. typical was 5.30s at 129 . I hit the traps about 7100-7200rpms. The convertor is 5500. power glide trans.

If i switch to the AFR220s,,,pn 1065 I will lose compression with there 65cc chambers-13.8 down to 11.5,,I'll also lose maybe 45lbs weight,,but possibly gain 16-24cfm at 500-600 lift.

I have a cam and new roller lifters and new springs I've been saving for next tear down to go in,,a older circle track Crane TR 260/4167-2-4, 260/270 on a 104lc, .4167"/.4167", .625"/.625" It has the small base circle, and tight lobe separation I think works in this 400.

What do you think the car would do( or not) if I bought the afrs,,and the used the roller,,or just stayed with the solid and put on the AFRs
.?????

Thanks for feedback
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novafornow
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by novafornow »

I think you can run a lot more cam in that light of a car. But I understand running what you have. Everyone thinks different, but here is my take. Get the CNC version of the heads and angle mill .075". It will give you the most bang for your buck.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by Ladderbar »

There are better heads out there than the AFR's
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by KnightEngines »

Use the roller cam & get the existing heads ported.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by novafornow »

KnightEngines wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:07 pm Use the roller cam & get the existing heads ported.
This would probably be the better route. I just don’t know a thing about those heads.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by Bill Chase »

Hvh has a Cnc profile for those castings. See what they can do for you, add their response to your list of options before making a decision. You may want to talk to Speier about your options too. I think he still sports iron, if you want higher rpm you can go to lighter 8mm valves etc.

Question comes down to what increase do you want specifically, and what is the most bang for your buck.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by riv187 »

I thank everyone for their opinions. I have a budget of about 2000-2500 in mind to get as much bang for buck. That includes not just heads,,but I know other stuff will need changed or replaced. The et goal would be nice to to lose 2 tenths and get in 5.00- 5.10range. Maybe a stretch. The solid mech cam I have is less than ideal, but I hoped 40-50 hp better with this old roller on shelf maybe feasible.


Thought maybe the the additional cfm of the published charts may get me 40 more too. Weight loss for aluminum maybe another .002-.005.
It's a little hard to believe on surface that one set of EQ 220s, for another AFR220s,, that lose compression,, would achieve this...but reason I ask.

My 400 block is a 509,,2 bolt with studs top bottom,,,I filled it to water pump holes to add strength. I think I'm getting close to the max horsepower limit. At a certain point it becomes big bucks to build new SHP block.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by novafornow »

It will run until it doesn't. One thing that i learned is that when you finally switch to the SHP, you will pick up power. The block is more stable.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by RevTheory »

Does it go down the track with those stacks in the wind like that? Any way you can scoop it?
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by CamKing »

Leave the iron heads on it. If you have the budget, have those heads ported.
Either way, you should switch cam, lifters, springs and pushrods
Go with a cam around 268/276 @ .050", a 110-112 LSA, and at least .700" lift
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by steve316 »

The 40 lbs you lose by going with AFR will lower your et .08 to .1 sec. CamKing's cam spec is close to what I would go with. Also factor in hp gains from gains from cfm & cam you should run 5.0's maybe even better.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by CamKing »

steve316 wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:38 pm The 40 lbs you lose by going with AFR will lower your et .08 to .1 sec. CamKing's cam spec is close to what I would go with. Also factor in hp gains from gains from cfm & cam you should run 5.0's maybe even better.
The drop in compression from 13.8 to 11.5 will cost him a lot more then the gains he'd see from the lighter heads, and the better flowing ports.
If he can get the compression up with the AFR heads, it's a no-brainer, but you can't give up 2 points of compression, for a slightly better flowing head.
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by Orr89rocz »

You can probably shave them down to 58cc without hurting them. Maybe more with the intake as well
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by riv187 »

RevTheory wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:14 pm Does it go down the track with those stacks in the wind like that? Any way you can scoop it?
Yes . No filters, no scoop. Never seen a scoop on top of hilborne,,,but there might be a little rm effect their if done.
riv187
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Re: Expected et change worth the cost of new AFRs in rail

Post by riv187 »

CamKing wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:47 pm Leave the iron heads on it. If you have the budget, have those heads ported.
Either way, you should switch cam, lifters, springs and pushrods
Go with a cam around 268/276 @ .050", a 110-112 LSA, and at least .700" lift
With the wider LSA,,,,wouldn't that cost midrange power? Also,,,I have .080"/.100" valve clearance ,after the fly cut with my current approx 590-.600" gross lift and the 105LSA....would the wider 110-112LSA gain me some piston clearance? The machinist who did the fly cut said I didn't have much meat left to go deeper on pockets.

Thanks
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