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Modification advice for 331 Ford

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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BobbyB
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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by BobbyB » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:25 pm

ustahava67 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm
It isn't a HP number that will kill a stock block necessarily.... It could be RPM or a bad tune.... I have built a few turbo SBF, 302's with 500 RWHP. They have been alive for years. My personal 347 NA I have 10 plus years bracket racing it. It still has the same head gaskets from when I put it together. My own self imposed limits are 6500 rpm and a well balanced assembly. My engine will make power to 7400 but I don't take it that high. I bracket race.... a few hundredth's ain't worth it
What is your total timing? What heads?

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by frnkeore » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:02 pm

To give you a idea of what the Howards .875 cam will do. This is your cam from CC site:

SOLID 35-334-4 282S-10 282-2 282-2 236 236 .528 .528 110°

This is what a custom .875 Howards cam would be:

Lobe #-----.020-.050-.200 Lobe- lash--1.60---1.70
FF2363588A 264 236 153 0.359 0.018 .5741 .6100

Here is my .875 cam card compared to a .875 Howards:

.020-.050-.200-Lobe-Lash-1.60-1.70
280 252 169 0.389 0.018 .6222 .6611
284 256 173 0.394 0.018 .6304 .6698

I would also recommend the Eaton light weight VL48 lifters @83G vs the 108g AT2000 lifters.
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mt-engines
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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by mt-engines » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:35 pm

frnkeore wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:50 pm
mt-engines wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:44 pm
add some 200cc heads
get the compression close to 11:1
add 10 degrees of duration @.050 and .050" lift 106 lobe sep +4
howards has a 246/252 106lsa 102 icl that i had run in a street strip 331" with canfield 192cc ported were 205cc went 10.40s in a fox
Was that your daily driver? :?

As I said, the Howards .875 lifter cams, have more lift and duration than the CC .875 cams but, I wouldn't go over about 240/246, 110 to 108 LSA, with it, for the street. Howards sells their custom cams for the same price as their stocked cams. Great people to work with also and you can spend as much time as you want, on the phone designing the cam.
It was a customers. He drove it all year round until he bought a blazer for winter driving.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by mt-engines » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 pm

Joe-71 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:03 pm
At 331 cubic inches, you will be better off with the AFR 165 CNC Renegade heads on the street and occasional drag strip trip. The 185 heads will make more horsepower if you change camshafts and take advantage of the increase in flow above your current camshaft. A good beehive spring, titanium retainer, and .600-625" valve lift will definitely get you an additional 50 hp you are wanting. Joe-71
a 165cc head? you think it will make 480hp?
maybe in a magazine.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm

blackford wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:50 pm
F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:06 am
Supercharge it with a TorQStorm blower.
Oh My! It would be close to 600 HP with 6-8 lbs of boost! I don't know if my block would handle that. Looks like a nice system though. My ring gap would probably need to be opened up also before boosting it. I wonder if I could have the boost dialed back to 3 lbs or something. That would put the power at around 510...still pretty high for a stock block. I wonder if i'd have to open up the ring gap with 3 lbs of boost.
You can dial up and dial down the net boost and power
by changing the supercharger drive pulleys.
To reach your stated new power level would not need much boost, nor ring end gap mod.
On yours I was thinkin in the 3-5 psi boost zone.

Carb fuel metering mods.. Fuel system mods (boost referenced fuel pressure regulation) and ignition timing mods for boost retard.
Best premimum pump gas is required.
Blending in 110 octane race gas to up the octane allows more boost..
But mild easy boost will get you easily to your new power goal.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by mt-engines » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:23 pm

F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 pm
blackford wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:50 pm
F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:06 am
Supercharge it with a TorQStorm blower.
Oh My! It would be close to 600 HP with 6-8 lbs of boost! I don't know if my block would handle that. Looks like a nice system though. My ring gap would probably need to be opened up also before boosting it. I wonder if I could have the boost dialed back to 3 lbs or something. That would put the power at around 510...still pretty high for a stock block. I wonder if i'd have to open up the ring gap with 3 lbs of boost.
You can dial up and dial down the net boost and power
by changing the supercharger drive pulleys.
To reach your stated new power level would not need much boost, nor ring end gap mod.
On yours I was thinkin in the 3-5 psi boost zone.

Carb fuel metering mods.. Fuel system mods (boost referenced fuel pressure regulation) and ignition timing mods for boost retard.
Best premimum pump gas is required.
Blending in 110 octane race gas to up the octane allows more boost..
But mild easy boost will get you easily to your new power goal.
His goal is achievable with heads and a cam. no sense in not only adding weight to the car, but way more expense.

Do us all a favor and when someone asks a question, refrain from answering it with your answers that have nothing to do with what the op asks.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by frnkeore » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:32 pm

mt-engines wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Joe-71 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:03 pm
At 331 cubic inches, you will be better off with the AFR 165 CNC Renegade heads on the street and occasional drag strip trip. The 185 heads will make more horsepower if you change camshafts and take advantage of the increase in flow above your current camshaft. A good beehive spring, titanium retainer, and .600-625" valve lift will definitely get you an additional 50 hp you are wanting. Joe-71
a 165cc head? you think it will make 480hp?
maybe in a magazine.
I looked up the spec on the 165cc heads:

165cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600
Int 135 200 240 251 255 260
Exh 122 163 192 208 212 215

I was surprised they flow 260cfm. So, yes, they will do 480 HP.

Mummert did his 450 HP, 294 CI, EMC engine, with only 238 cfm (as I remember) @ 7200. Extrapolated out, that's 508 HP, with 332 CI.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:54 pm

Mt engines You give it up..
The smart money will seriously look at supercharging this engine at this point in the game to get the desired power increase..
Take the engine as it is now and supercharge it..

blackford
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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by blackford » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:18 pm

frnkeore wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:32 pm
I looked up the spec on the 165cc heads:

165cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600
Int 135 200 240 251 255 260
Exh 122 163 192 208 212 215

I was surprised they flow 260cfm. So, yes, they will do 480 HP.

Mummert did his 450 HP, 294 CI, EMC engine, with only 238 cfm (as I remember) @ 7200. Extrapolated out, that's 508 HP, with 332 CI.
and those low lift numbers are nice where the valve spends more time being open at or above. By .3 it's flowing 200 where my ported DOOEs are probably maxing out at 225-230. I've always leaned toward a smaller more efficient port. Nice throttle response, not as much bottom end lost while the top end may take a bit of a hit, but then again I currently have 160cc intakes and the top end on this little overachieving screamer is just fine (for now).
65 Mustang FB, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, Ported DOOEs, T5z, 9" 3.89 gears. 430HP@6500

2013 Corvette 427 Convertible daily driver

blackford
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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by blackford » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:26 pm

BobbyB wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:12 pm
How does the performance of your mustang compare to your corvette? Which one would you rather drive for thrills? Sounds like two really neat cars to have.
The two cars are very different. The mustang is just raw power and the corvette is much more refined and controlled. I thought at first that the corvette was faster in the 1/4, but changing gears on the Mustang from 3.50s to 3.89s really was a good fit for the engine power curve and id say the two cars are close...if the Mustang can get any traction (traction control is my right foot).

I'd say the Mustang definitely wins the scare factor though. I had my brother screaming for me to stop and my 18 year old son had to go home and rest after I took him to an empty parking lot and did some drifting... :D
65 Mustang FB, 331 custom built with 289 H beam rods and 383W piston, 282S cam, Ported DOOEs, T5z, 9" 3.89 gears. 430HP@6500

2013 Corvette 427 Convertible daily driver

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by inline6 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:02 pm

I run a 331 in my 92 fox Mustang. It has a FTI solid roller cam .664/.633" lift, around 240ish range on duration, it has great street manors. AFR 205's, they are about 9 years old so they flow ~300 cfm max on a 4.030 bore. Any way its 10.5:1 comp, single plane super victor, pro systems 780 carb, long tubes with 3" mufflers and full custom 3"tails. Its been together 9 years, I twist it to 7800rpm on the street and 8200rpm at the track. Hp is 470rwhp through a Tremec, I do run a 4.56:1 gear. Best so far in the quarter is 11.11@127mph on a DOT, goal was 10.99 still not there!
20200531_175618.jpg
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Tractor Puller, 1959 IH 460 with 430cid NA Alcohol Inline 6 started its life as a D282

The only replacement for displacement is RPM!

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:16 pm

OP What does the car run now et mph and 60 ft now.
and what does it weight race ready with u in it.?

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by mt-engines » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:50 am

frnkeore wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:32 pm
mt-engines wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Joe-71 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:03 pm
At 331 cubic inches, you will be better off with the AFR 165 CNC Renegade heads on the street and occasional drag strip trip. The 185 heads will make more horsepower if you change camshafts and take advantage of the increase in flow above your current camshaft. A good beehive spring, titanium retainer, and .600-625" valve lift will definitely get you an additional 50 hp you are wanting. Joe-71
a 165cc head? you think it will make 480hp?
maybe in a magazine.
I looked up the spec on the 165cc heads:

165cc Street Head Flow Chart
.200 .300 .400 .500 .550 .600
Int 135 200 240 251 255 260
Exh 122 163 192 208 212 215

I was surprised they flow 260cfm. So, yes, they will do 480 HP.

Mummert did his 450 HP, 294 CI, EMC engine, with only 238 cfm (as I remember) @ 7200. Extrapolated out, that's 508 HP, with 332 CI.
yeah and i did a 780hp 461.. extrapolate that into a 632, 1070.. its just that simple.

you can make 500hp with 200cfm. you need the area to achive the rpm where you will make that power. if you want to use a superstock camshaft, have fun cruising that down the street

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by Mark O'Neal » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:59 am

mt-engines wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:30 pm
Joe-71 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:03 pm
At 331 cubic inches, you will be better off with the AFR 165 CNC Renegade heads on the street and occasional drag strip trip. The 185 heads will make more horsepower if you change camshafts and take advantage of the increase in flow above your current camshaft. A good beehive spring, titanium retainer, and .600-625" valve lift will definitely get you an additional 50 hp you are wanting. Joe-71
a 165cc head? you think it will make 480hp?
maybe in a magazine.
Not even there.

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Re: Modification advice for 331 Ford

Post by My427stang » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:11 am

I think the head change will be almost magical, although I wouldn't chase 11:1, too much compression for the risk IMHO, and I run most street builds up near 10.2-10.5, so I am not afraid of it

I personally think the heads alone, likely a 165 as said before, will get you a significant gain. Some work in the intake plenum if not done, and maybe some exhaust and curve work, will add too. The only other thing I may do, if considering a cam swap, is get something with a bit more lift and exhaust duration, but in the same basic range, take advantage of the good head (exhaust duration would depend on the head and how well the exhaust port works, but I think its safe to say some split would work well with an AFR street head).

I will say though, that given the performance you have, and where you want to go, I'd probably start thinking about a 4032 or 2618 piston for safety, especially if you go higher compression
70 Mustang, 489 FE, TKO-600, Massflo SEFI, 4.11s
71 F100 SB 4x4, 461 FE, 4 speed, port injected EFI, 3.50s

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