The funk...

[travis]

Since I’ve been focusing on my ‘83 F150 the last few weeks, the ‘87 F150 has just been sitting after I got it running good. When I went to go move it yesterday, it was running like absolute crap, wouldn’t idle at all, and had quite the funky smell coming out the exhaust. I had put 10 gallons of fresh gas in it when I parked it last, plus it still had about 5 gallons of “whatever” left in the tank. I found the brand new carb full of rust, so I dropped the rear fuel tank, and found this...

6E281E31-982F-4C86-8E2B-615A27B024C6.jpeg

Also found that someone had been in the tank before, and had removed the sock and busted the pickup, which would explain why it acted like it was starving for fuel when it got down to under a 1/4 tank.

It never ends...

[Kevin Johnson]

Funk.jpeg

[travis]

Funk.jpeg

Hmmm...almost sounds radioactive

[PackardV8]

You didn't mention your location, but I've noticed those east of the Rockies have far more problems with E10 gasahol than we in the less humid areas.

Wonder if anyone has done any studies/research/home-schooling on keeping the tank full versus parking it with a lot of humid air in the top 3/4 of the tank.

[travis]

You didn't mention your location, but I've noticed those east of the Rockies have far more problems with E10 gasahol than we in the less humid areas.

Wonder if anyone has done any studies/research/home-schooling on keeping the tank full versus parking it with a lot of humid air in the top 3/4 of the tank.

I’m in NE Texas...and we have plenty of humidity and heat.

Back years ago when I was daily driving my ‘83 ford, when everyone started switching to E10 the biggest problem I had was all the gunk that started breaking loose in the fuel tanks. There was several months there that I was constantly replacing fuel filters.

By far the biggest problems I’ve had with cars sitting is the carbs. The E10 fuels just seem to destroy everything inside a carb if they sit for long periods of time. Needle and seats corrode shut, and serious rust forms on the throttle blades. I’m guessing it’s all the moisture from the air being attracted to the alcohol

[BOOT]

Anytime one of my cars sits 2 weeks or I think it's gonna sit that or longer, it gets fuel treatment to stabilize the fuel. Even my newish truck!

[Kevin Johnson]

You didn't mention your location, but I've noticed those east of the Rockies have far more problems with E10 gasahol than we in the less humid areas.

Wonder if anyone has done any studies/research/home-schooling on keeping the tank full versus parking it with a lot of humid air in the top 3/4 of the tank.

I think, as the more volatile fractions escape, that "leaves the door open" for competing partial pressures to cause problems.

Once vehicles get past their warranty period there is also 'perhaps' a tendency to allow pollution control devices to deteriorate so long as it doesn't throw a code that causes a decrease in performance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My lawnmower and/or generator is able to consume old gas that would (and has) thrown codes when (foolishly) used in my daily driver. In hurricane season it is wise to keep jerrycans of fuel at the ready here for many months.

I believe some searching here on Speed Talk will yield a thread about BHT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butylated_hydroxytoluene

I think additional neat ethyl alcohol will address the free water concern.

Oh yeah, brought back memories of my old Jag and electric fuel pumps clogged with fine particles of rust. Good times.

[rebelrouser]

In messing with a lot of old cars E10 only lasts about 30 days before it absorbs moisture, and the light airs evaporate from the fuel. We have a couple stations that sell alcohol free premium, I use it in all my equipment like lawn mowers, weed eaters, etc. and any vehicle that sits a lot. Leaving a fuel tank siting for long periods with only a little bit of fuel in it, also promotes rust in the tank, all fuel leaves no oxygen to start rust. Just replaced the tank in a 68 AMX that had been sitting for a year, filter clogged with rust. Had to remove the fuel neck to install in the new tank. When we cut the tank apart, you could see the fuel line, with heavy rust where the fuel level of about 1/4 full tank when sitting. A lot oil jobbers do not mix the alcohol well and many times you may get more than the 10%, dealerships all now have fuel kits to measure alcohol content for driveability problems. Reed vapor pressure testing is why I mention the 30 day shelf life of modern fuel, it goes away very quick.

[David Redszus]

We have been involved with fuel testing for SAE, SCCA and others for the past 25 years or so.

E10, indicates the presence of 10% alcohol. In reality the alcohol content could vary from 6% to 12% in actual fuel test samples.

If we assume E10 to actually contain 10% ethanol, it means that it could absorb its weight in water being 100% soluble.
For a gallon of fuel, 12.8 oz will actually be alcohol which could also contain up to 12.8 oz of water. The water will be invisible. But if the water content were to exceed 12.8%, the excess would drop out to the bottom as visible liquid water.

If exposure to a humid atmosphere were the only condition, the alcohol could not absorb more than its own weight and with no visible trace. But if in a container, exposed to changes in temperature, the condensed water vapor can accumulate with time and exceed the saturation limit. Now it becomes a visible layer.

Here's the best part. Detergents in the fuel will remove the protective layers of gums from metal surfaces and allow the water containing oxygen to merrily attack the metal surfaces. Rust never sleeps.

Some fuels containing alcohols, will be wet, as you receive them. Water might have entered storage tanks along the distribution pathway. Dry alcohols are very difficult to keep dry. To keep them dry, we need tightly sealed storage containers, not vented to the moisture containing atmosphere, and a stable temperature.

[travis]

I put a gallon of the fuel I pulled from the tank into a clear plastic jug and let it sit overnight. There is definitely water in there...and a serious amount of crud.

The inside of the tank looks like it was used for salt water storage for a long time...it’s junk.

So...I’ve ordered a new tank, and a new fuel sender that I’m going to have upgraded to a 3/8” line. All the replacements are 5/16”.

Going forward, for something that sometimes sits for long periods of time, what is the best solution to prolong fuel system life? Non-ethanol fuel is unfortunately not easily available around here.

[David Redszus]

I put a gallon of the fuel I pulled from the tank into a clear plastic jug and let it sit overnight. There is definitely water in there...and a serious amount of crud.

The inside of the tank looks like it was used for salt water storage for a long time...it’s junk.

So...I’ve ordered a new tank, and a new fuel sender that I’m going to have upgraded to a 3/8” line. All the replacements are 5/16”.

Going forward, for something that sometimes sits for long periods of time, what is the best solution to prolong fuel system life? Non-ethanol fuel is unfortunately not easily available around here.

1. Test the candidate fuel for alcohol and water content.

2. Use a premium grade fuel for storage.

3. Fill the tank completely leaving only limited air space.

[ProPower engines]

One thing we noticed in the wrecking yard is new cars with sealed fuel systems seems to let fuel stay fresh for much longer periods of time then older vented systems
We had to remove all fuel tanks before shredding anyway as a fire prevention measure but on the newer vehicles the
sealed systems had much fresher fuel. And it stayed fresh for much longer then you would think. In some cases cars/trucks that sat with as much as 3/4 of a tank of fuel when parked we had tested and it was like week old fuel.
Now we built a storage tank to recover the fuel as it was worth too much to pay for disposal when it was reused in some of the smaller tow trucks we used and never seen any issue with filters. But it was filters by a raycor style filter before it was put in the trucks but after 1000's of gallons of fuel went through that fiter. it was 2 years before it was changed.

I believe that if the average person that had a vehicle that was normally parked for long periods that used the modern non vented system just filled the tank and left it for a year they would have no fuel issues even the current alcohol blended fuels which is every where today

[Krooser]

Five years ago ST member Wyrmryder gave me his '88 Ford F350 during a moment of bad judgement.

I flew to LA to pick it up. After two days of minor repairs ( frost plugs, brakes and a fuel pump replacement) I drove back home (2250 miles) starting out with the 37 gallons of 11 year old gasoline in the tanks.

Refilling with fresh gas every 40-50 miles the truck was sluggish at first but came to life somewhere in the Nevada desert and ran flawlessly from there back to Wisconsin.

My leap of faith in that old gas was promoted by the $4.50 price at the ARCO station across the street from my starting point.

[Kevin Johnson]

Five years ago ST member Wyrmryder gave me his '88 Ford F350 during a moment of bad judgement.

I flew to LA to pick it up. After two days of minor repairs ( frost plugs, brakes and a fuel pump replacement) I drove back home (2250 miles) starting out with the 37 gallons of 11 year old gasoline in the tanks.

Refilling with fresh gas every 40-50 miles the truck was sluggish at first but came to life somewhere in the Nevada desert and ran flawlessly from there back to Wisconsin.

My leap of faith in that old gas was promoted by the $4.50 price at the ARCO station across the street from my starting point.

Well, to be fair, it helped that there is very little precipitation on Arrakis.

[Krooser]

Yikes!!!!