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Early prostock iron heads.

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Stan Weiss
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:51 am

Steve,
Thanks for all of the pictures. I had only seen a couple of sets years ago and they had the filled floors.

Stan
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:32 am

Here is the proper flow sheet Stan.
317E1F6C-1A9C-4F7D-A65F-8DBAE25BB9C5.jpeg
Compared to the first flow sheet I posted what would these do in terms of those other heads that drop after .700?
Its a bit of a misconception that these guys were filling to get speed up in port. Paul told me that they were or at least he was trying to turn the flow away from the shrouded side of valve. Note even filled with expoxy the port measures 244cc. Quite big still. The intake as the same buildup at runner bottom where he started the turn. Alot of hrs went into these heads and intake.
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:42 am

B3421760-27EA-4A77-AE24-48042F72E0E9.jpeg
Heres the pinning on deck as mentioned earlier.
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:59 pm

Steve,
If there nothing limiting lift I would want to see what they do at .900 and 1.000. Back then what lift cams did they use? I would but interest in what Mike Jones thinks.

Stan
Steve_K_Cleveland_Pro_Stock.gif
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Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:57 pm

Stan this is from a old cleveland buddy of mine. His avatar was called Methylated. He was up on prostock stuff.


-1971 they built a 366 4.02 X 3.6 with a crane F276 and 2 660 holleys made 586 hp at 7200 rpm . that was a very early engine .

-1973 ford published "how to build a pro stock pinto " they were still using the D1ZX-6250-FA camshaft or the general kinetics F5M332-B both were flat tappets . they had moved to using port plates "worth 20 hp at 8000 rpm" . weiand 1992 tunnel ram with 2 660's . headers were 2.25 x 34 long collector 3.5-4" "fabricate on long side"

during this time and later on pro stockers began rolling their own more and more . In the nhra the engines were seldom bigger than 340 because they had to carry more weight per CI than any other combo . In match racing they built much larger engines up to about 427 ci .

-1976 Dyno Don ran 7.9? in 1976 match racing in a ~1900 lb car

the 340's in later years would hit the stripe at around 10,000 rpm with a 108 lsa 285-295 @ .050 around .750 lift rollers . 2 dommy's . Bob Glidden made over 750 hp in basically this way and eventually went 8.30 in nhra trim.

though the cams did not have much lift by todays standards the competition wasn't using any more , and the clevelands cleaned up.....

-1978 nhra gave BG 150 lbs off his weight break for using a long boxy fairmont . At it's debut Grumpy Jenkins came over and "served notice" that he was gonna whip that car , and Glidden in it . didn't happen . Glidden laughed and said he "dropped the chute at about 1000 feet on him "
That car never lost a race .

-1983 when Animal Jim was running pro stock in the ahra using n2o he made about 1000 hp , ran 7.88 ~ 180 mph 427 cid , 2450 lbs.

those are just some of the highlights .

'His nickname might have been "happy" were it not for the 351 cleveland'

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 pm

If your interested i could flow them higher. Just to see.

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by shoedoos » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:34 am

Spotted these on craigslist a couple of years back....was intrigued enough to copy the pics to my hard drive....they were Roush according the guy who was advertising them....
roush.jpg
roush1.jpg
roush2.jpg
roush3.jpg
roush4.jpg
roush5.jpg
roush6.jpg
roush7.jpg
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:39 am

Steve.k wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 pm
If your interested i could flow them higher. Just to see.
Steve,
I don't know what the spec for those cams are. Around that time I ran a GK solid flat tappet 280 @ 0.050" and it had 0.558" lift (No I was not running Pro Stock) in a 337 ci SBC. The reason I would like Mike Jones to post is the first head, I don't see working well with a 0.750" lift cam. The second set of heads flow increased 9.7 cfm from 0.700" to 0.800" so I think there is more left and they might like even more than 0.750" lift.

Stan
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:41 am

shoedoos wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:34 am
Spotted these on craigslist a couple of years back....was intrigued enough to copy the pics to my hard drive....they were Roush according the guy who was advertising them....
So these heads have the filled floor and wing. Would be nice if we could get a timeline for all of these different heads.

Stan
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:50 pm

Steve,
I forgot. I had gotten a used GK SBC cast core roller cam around that time which I never ran. At that time I did do a quick check with a degree wheel and dial indicator. Don't know how close these numbers are to Pro Stock at the time.

Stan

Code: Select all

_______I__N__T__A__K__E
Rocker_Arm_Ratio_=_1.500_________Valve_Lash_=_0.02400_

VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Area
_________0.00000____58.00_|__99.14_|_337.14_|__58.15
_________0.00600____53.56_|__93.43_|_326.98_|__58.17
_________0.01000____50.59_|__90.48_|_321.08_|__58.01
_________0.02000____44.90_|__84.42_|_309.33_|__57.98
_________0.04000____35.96_|__75.33_|_291.30_|__57.56
_________0.05000____32.26_|__71.37_|_283.62_|__57.08
_________0.10000____18.13_|__56.94_|_255.07_|__56.14
_________0.15000_____6.89_|__46.29_|_233.17_|__54.13
_________0.20000____-2.34_|__36.91_|_214.57_|__52.01
_________0.25000___-10.89_|__28.27_|_197.38_|__50.40
_________0.30000___-19.07_|__20.29_|_181.22_|__47.36
_________0.35000___-27.77_|__12.16_|_164.40_|__45.92
_________0.40000___-36.42_|___3.40_|_146.99_|__42.01
_________0.42500___-40.58_|__-0.98_|_138.43_|__39.54
_________0.45000___-45.33_|__-5.37_|_129.30_|__37.53
_________0.50000___-55.91_|_-15.53_|_108.57_|__32.56
_________0.55000___-68.53_|_-27.17_|__84.31_|__27.17
_________0.60000___-87.00_|_-42.71_|__50.29_|__15.40
_________0.62000__-105.33_|_-56.67_|__18.00_|___6.21
CAM
_________0.00600____78.00_|_122.00_|_380.00_|__41.81
_________0.01000____68.00_|_112.00_|_360.00_|__41.73
_________0.02000____53.56_|__93.43_|_326.98_|__41.42
_________0.04000____37.44_|__77.00_|_294.44_|__40.69
_________0.05000____31.89_|__71.05_|_282.94_|__40.30
_________0.10000____12.14_|__50.86_|_243.00_|__38.42
_________0.15000____-2.51_|__36.72_|_214.21_|__36.35
_________0.20000___-15.17_|__24.14_|_188.97_|__34.37
_________0.25000___-27.95_|__12.00_|_164.05_|__31.98
_________0.30000___-40.75_|__-1.16_|_138.09_|__27.48
_________0.35000___-56.14_|_-15.74_|_108.12_|__22.59
_________0.40000___-76.74_|_-34.52_|__68.74_|__14.84
_________0.42500___-96.29_|_-48.00_|__35.71_|___8.59

_______E__X__H__A__U__S__T
Rocker_Arm_Ratio_=_1.500_________Valve_Lash_=_0.02400
VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BBDC__Deg_ATDC_____________Area
_________0.00000___122.50_|__85.00_|_387.50_|__60.05
_________0.00600___110.00_|__70.00_|_360.00_|__60.01
_________0.01000___105.56_|__58.67_|_344.22_|__59.84
_________0.02000____97.44_|__47.08_|_324.52_|__59.61
_________0.04000____88.07_|__34.52_|_302.59_|__59.19
_________0.05000____84.56_|__29.82_|_294.39_|__58.73
_________0.10000____70.86_|__14.76_|_265.63_|__57.78
_________0.15000____60.00_|___3.75_|_243.75_|__56.40
_________0.20000____50.74_|__-5.93_|_224.81_|__54.53
_________0.25000____41.93_|_-14.34_|_207.59_|__52.05
_________0.30000____33.16_|_-22.43_|_190.73_|__49.04
_________0.35000____24.23_|_-31.44_|_172.79_|__45.46
_________0.40000____14.95_|_-40.49_|_154.46_|__41.36
_________0.45000_____4.48_|_-50.33_|_134.15_|__36.78
_________0.50000____-7.53_|_-61.73_|_110.74_|__31.80
_________0.55000___-22.59_|_-75.76_|__81.65_|__23.81
_________0.60000___-48.75_|_-97.50_|__33.75_|__12.08
CAM
_________0.00600___156.67_|_120.00_|_456.67_|__43.58
_________0.01000___140.00_|_106.67_|_426.67_|__43.43
_________0.02000___110.00_|__70.00_|_360.00_|__42.97
_________0.04000____89.47_|__36.43_|_305.90_|__41.86
_________0.05000____84.21_|__29.47_|_293.68_|__41.47
_________0.10000____65.16_|___8.75_|_253.91_|__39.60
_________0.15000____50.56_|__-6.11_|_224.44_|__38.19
_________0.20000____37.37_|_-18.37_|_199.00_|__35.52
_________0.25000____24.05_|_-31.62_|_172.43_|__31.67
_________0.30000____10.00_|_-45.59_|_144.41_|__28.78
_________0.35000____-7.78_|_-62.00_|_110.22_|__22.08
_________0.40000___-33.08_|_-85.33_|__61.59_|__12.51
Stan Weiss / World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by hoffman900 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:57 pm

Stan Weiss wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:50 pm
Steve,
I forgot. I had gotten a used GK SBC cast core roller cam around that time which I never ran. At that time I did do a quick check with a degree wheel and dial indicator. Don't know how close these numbers are to Pro Stock at the time.

Stan

Code: Select all

_______I__N__T__A__K__E
Rocker_Arm_Ratio_=_1.500_________Valve_Lash_=_0.02400_

VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BTDC__Deg_ABDC_____________Area
_________0.00000____58.00_|__99.14_|_337.14_|__58.15
_________0.00600____53.56_|__93.43_|_326.98_|__58.17
_________0.01000____50.59_|__90.48_|_321.08_|__58.01
_________0.02000____44.90_|__84.42_|_309.33_|__57.98
_________0.04000____35.96_|__75.33_|_291.30_|__57.56
_________0.05000____32.26_|__71.37_|_283.62_|__57.08
_________0.10000____18.13_|__56.94_|_255.07_|__56.14
_________0.15000_____6.89_|__46.29_|_233.17_|__54.13
_________0.20000____-2.34_|__36.91_|_214.57_|__52.01
_________0.25000___-10.89_|__28.27_|_197.38_|__50.40
_________0.30000___-19.07_|__20.29_|_181.22_|__47.36
_________0.35000___-27.77_|__12.16_|_164.40_|__45.92
_________0.40000___-36.42_|___3.40_|_146.99_|__42.01
_________0.42500___-40.58_|__-0.98_|_138.43_|__39.54
_________0.45000___-45.33_|__-5.37_|_129.30_|__37.53
_________0.50000___-55.91_|_-15.53_|_108.57_|__32.56
_________0.55000___-68.53_|_-27.17_|__84.31_|__27.17
_________0.60000___-87.00_|_-42.71_|__50.29_|__15.40
_________0.62000__-105.33_|_-56.67_|__18.00_|___6.21
CAM
_________0.00600____78.00_|_122.00_|_380.00_|__41.81
_________0.01000____68.00_|_112.00_|_360.00_|__41.73
_________0.02000____53.56_|__93.43_|_326.98_|__41.42
_________0.04000____37.44_|__77.00_|_294.44_|__40.69
_________0.05000____31.89_|__71.05_|_282.94_|__40.30
_________0.10000____12.14_|__50.86_|_243.00_|__38.42
_________0.15000____-2.51_|__36.72_|_214.21_|__36.35
_________0.20000___-15.17_|__24.14_|_188.97_|__34.37
_________0.25000___-27.95_|__12.00_|_164.05_|__31.98
_________0.30000___-40.75_|__-1.16_|_138.09_|__27.48
_________0.35000___-56.14_|_-15.74_|_108.12_|__22.59
_________0.40000___-76.74_|_-34.52_|__68.74_|__14.84
_________0.42500___-96.29_|_-48.00_|__35.71_|___8.59

_______E__X__H__A__U__S__T
Rocker_Arm_Ratio_=_1.500_________Valve_Lash_=_0.02400
VALVE_____Lift______Opens___Closes__Duration
_________________Deg_BBDC__Deg_ATDC_____________Area
_________0.00000___122.50_|__85.00_|_387.50_|__60.05
_________0.00600___110.00_|__70.00_|_360.00_|__60.01
_________0.01000___105.56_|__58.67_|_344.22_|__59.84
_________0.02000____97.44_|__47.08_|_324.52_|__59.61
_________0.04000____88.07_|__34.52_|_302.59_|__59.19
_________0.05000____84.56_|__29.82_|_294.39_|__58.73
_________0.10000____70.86_|__14.76_|_265.63_|__57.78
_________0.15000____60.00_|___3.75_|_243.75_|__56.40
_________0.20000____50.74_|__-5.93_|_224.81_|__54.53
_________0.25000____41.93_|_-14.34_|_207.59_|__52.05
_________0.30000____33.16_|_-22.43_|_190.73_|__49.04
_________0.35000____24.23_|_-31.44_|_172.79_|__45.46
_________0.40000____14.95_|_-40.49_|_154.46_|__41.36
_________0.45000_____4.48_|_-50.33_|_134.15_|__36.78
_________0.50000____-7.53_|_-61.73_|_110.74_|__31.80
_________0.55000___-22.59_|_-75.76_|__81.65_|__23.81
_________0.60000___-48.75_|_-97.50_|__33.75_|__12.08
CAM
_________0.00600___156.67_|_120.00_|_456.67_|__43.58
_________0.01000___140.00_|_106.67_|_426.67_|__43.43
_________0.02000___110.00_|__70.00_|_360.00_|__42.97
_________0.04000____89.47_|__36.43_|_305.90_|__41.86
_________0.05000____84.21_|__29.47_|_293.68_|__41.47
_________0.10000____65.16_|___8.75_|_253.91_|__39.60
_________0.15000____50.56_|__-6.11_|_224.44_|__38.19
_________0.20000____37.37_|_-18.37_|_199.00_|__35.52
_________0.25000____24.05_|_-31.62_|_172.43_|__31.67
_________0.30000____10.00_|_-45.59_|_144.41_|__28.78
_________0.35000____-7.78_|_-62.00_|_110.22_|__22.08
_________0.40000___-33.08_|_-85.33_|__61.59_|__12.51
Stan,

Can you graph the profile and its derivatives? I'm curious to see what it looks like.
-Bob

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:31 pm

Bob,
It looks ugly. I did a quick measurement ever 10 degrees. If I would have known what I could do with that data today I would have taken more time.

Green line rough data

Red line with smoothing

Stan

gk_sbc_roller_velocity.gif
gk_sbc_roller_acceleration.gif
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Offering Performance Software Since 1987
Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:06 pm

Stan Weiss wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:39 am
Steve.k wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 pm
If your interested i could flow them higher. Just to see.
Steve,
I don't know what the spec for those cams are. Around that time I ran a GK solid flat tappet 280 @ 0.050" and it had 0.558" lift (No I was not running Pro Stock) in a 337 ci SBC. The reason I would like Mike Jones to post is the first head, I don't see working well with a 0.750" lift cam. The second set of heads flow increased 9.7 cfm from 0.700" to 0.800" so I think there is more left and they might like even more than 0.750" lift.

Stan
Stan a good buddy has a old p/s cam I’ll get him to forward specs. Im pretty sure most I’ve read about were close to .750 lift. Maybe Jim (Animal Jim) remembers I’ll get Tim to ask. There working on a nostalgia project.

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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Steve.k » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:13 pm

46757BB3-BB6E-4F55-9A94-76786A606D9F.png
Stan Weiss wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:39 am
Steve.k wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:19 pm
If your interested i could flow them higher. Just to see.
Steve,
I don't know what the spec for those cams are. Around that time I ran a GK solid flat tappet 280 @ 0.050" and it had 0.558" lift (No I was not running Pro Stock) in a 337 ci SBC. The reason I would like Mike Jones to post is the first head, I don't see working well with a 0.750" lift cam. The second set of heads flow increased 9.7 cfm from 0.700" to 0.800" so I think there is more left and they might like even more than 0.750" lift.

Stan
Got spec from buddy try that.
Stan these heads I believe would have raced in 78-82 area. Paul Jenkins told me everyone had small benches that wouldnt flow enough to give proper readings. He said his for some reason flowed more than Dyno Dons so they used his. He said Smokey even used his for awhile. I’ll get Geoff to flow again at .900- 1.0. Now you have me curious also.
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Re: Early prostock iron heads.

Post by Stan Weiss » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:19 pm

Steve.k wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:13 pm
Got spec from buddy try that.
Stan these heads I believe would have raced in 78-82 area. Paul Jenkins told me everyone had small benches that wouldnt flow enough to give proper readings. He said his for some reason flowed more than Dyno Dons so they used his. He said Smokey even used his for awhile. I’ll get Geoff to flow again at .900- 1.0. Now you have me curious also.
Steve,
The roller cam I posted the specs for is from before 78-82. But that exhaust lobe was around 294 @ 0.050' and with 1.73:1 rocker ratio would have about have about .729 gross lift almost sounds like the same exhaust lobe. Remember it was used and a cast core. I had measured 0.421 exhaust lobe lift and 0.430 intake lobe lift

Stan
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Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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