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Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:21 pm
by 65dragster
I welcome ideas on this combination before I re-buy new heads. A little bit of information might help. 1972 Nova with TCI Super Street Fighter T-350 and 3500 stall converter. Has 3.08 gears, but we have another 10-bolt with good axles, full spool, and 4.10 gears. Has drag radials (255/60/15), but will run full slicks on track days. 85% street use and 15% bracket drags (5-10 track days/year. Engine is World Products Motown 4.125 bore block, loaded with forged rotating assembly (3.75 stroke & 6”rods). I had AFR 195’s, but sold them after reading about Pro-Filer heads and/or what Chad and Eric offer. I’ve settled on a Jones HR cam .360 lobe 233 duration 112 LSA, but I haven’t ordered it yet. I have a Vic Jr ported to a Fel Pro 1206 or a new Holley 300-25 or an Edelbrock Air Gap and several nice 750’s and an 850. I have 1.50 and 1.60 rocker arms. With a 64 cc chamber and -16cc dish, it should be 9.7:1. So my question is what heads to buy. AFR 195 or 210? Pro-Filer 195 or 210? Something else? I would like to run low 11’s or on a hero pass, a 10.99. I know that’s asking a lot, but I am willing to work the combination to get the results. I prefer decent street manners and the car has power brakes. Okay, please offer insight and guidance.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:46 pm
by rfoll
4.10 gears will require you to either run 29" tall tires and even with that it is likely you will need to turn at 6500 at the finish line. Go bigger on the heads and cam, 233@.050 is tiny for a 400.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:02 pm
by 65dragster
Rfoll, thanks for the idea. I really respect what you've done with a 406! I don't mind going to 6500 if I use the 300-25. I'll have to talk to Mike to see if the cam will hold to 6500 with a valve spring upgrade. Not sure if a 29 inch slick will fit without some massaging. I can always stick to 1/8 mile drags. Any opinions AFR vs Pro-Filer or others? Not looking to bash any brand, I just want to make a good decision, especially after spending $8000 (unexpected) on a new septic leach field!
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:05 pm
by rustbucket79
I won’t comment on the heads, any one of what you’ve mentioned would be a good choice, 400’s aren’t afraid of port volume.
Don’t think you need 29” slicks with 4.10’s, I achieve 133 mph in the quarter at 7100 with 4.30’s and a slippy 6000 converter on a 29.5 slick. You won’t have much slippage with a 10” converter and 4.10’s.
You need to decide what you want, good street manners or a 10 second car.
FWIW, the better the heads you buy [and the better the combination] the smaller the cam you can run and still achieve (or come close) to your goal.
Good luck
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:07 pm
by 77cruiser
The only thing I don't like about Profilers is the raise D port ex. shelf headers are a difficult fit.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:20 pm
by 65dragster
Rustbucket, thanks. It's mostly a street car. I ran 11.50's in my old 63 Nova using a flat tappet cam in a 331 with mildly ported 461 heads, a strip dominator and a 750 using 4.88's and a Glide with 8 inch converfer, on 10.5 x 29.5 slicks, but that was 30 years ago and a lighter car. I want the car to be fun to drive, but capable at the drags. That's why I am willing to swap the rear end, torque converter, and slicks for play days at the track. If I had to choose between the last few tenths at the track and a strong but enjoyable car to drive, I would likely give up a little ET.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:25 pm
by 65dragster
77cruiser, I've read that, too. I don't want to fight header fitment. I was also concerned about stepping up to the AFR210's because they only come as angle plugs. I wonder if an 1 5/8 header tube is enough?
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:29 am
by steve cowan
65dragster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:21 pm
I welcome ideas on this combination before I re-buy new heads. A little bit of information might help. 1972 Nova with TCI Super Street Fighter T-350 and 3500 stall converter. Has 3.08 gears, but we have another 10-bolt with good axles, full spool, and 4.10 gears. Has drag radials (255/60/15), but will run full slicks on track days. 85% street use and 15% bracket drags (5-10 track days/year. Engine is World Products Motown 4.125 bore block, loaded with forged rotating assembly (3.75 stroke & 6”rods). I had AFR 195’s, but sold them after reading about Pro-Filer heads and/or what Chad and Eric offer. I’ve settled on a Jones HR cam .360 lobe 233 duration 112 LSA, but I haven’t ordered it yet. I have a Vic Jr ported to a Fel Pro 1206 or a new Holley 300-25 or an Edelbrock Air Gap and several nice 750’s and an 850. I have 1.50 and 1.60 rocker arms. With a 64 cc chamber and -16cc dish, it should be 9.7:1. So my question is what heads to buy. AFR 195 or 210? Pro-Filer 195 or 210? Something else? I would like to run low 11’s or on a hero pass, a 10.99. I know that’s asking a lot, but I am willing to work the combination to get the results. I prefer decent street manners and the car has power brakes. Okay, please offer insight and guidance.
I think you can hit your goals with the setup you are suggesting.
I think the nova is around 3000pounds ??
a couple of years ago I ran my 3650 pound streeter with this combination,bolt on parts nothing fancy at all.
010 block 383sbc
10.6:1 comp
scat rotating assembly
as cast 215 Pro 1 dart heads.
comp solid roller 254-260 @ 0.050'' 680'' lift 112 LSA
as cast super victor
950 hp carb
1 3/4 headers 4 into 1 plus 3'' exhaust
turbo 400 8'' 5600 converter
9 inch with 4.1:1
255/60/15 drag radial
drive to the track and home pump gas
11.10 @123mph
1.52 - 60ft
7.01 @ 98mph eight mile
gear shift was around 7000 plus but through the lights at 6400-6500rpm
I am now using smaller heads and cam om same cubes,i will eventually put the 215 heads on a 406engine /dart block.
maybe on yours a bit more compression but that's just my opinion
60 mph is around 3000-3200rpm on highway
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:10 am
by 65dragster
Steve, it always helps to see someone else’s combination when it’s track tested. On a track day, I’ll lighten up the car by a couple hundred pounds from street trim, but it’s still probably close to 3400 with driver. You ran a much more aggressive solid roller than my small HR, but I am thinking the extra cubes will help. If I need to go with more stall speed once I see what the engine wants, I’ll pony up the cash. Thanks for the ideas, it is appreciated.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:45 am
by Monza355
Ok. I’m reading this correctly, you had AFR 195’s and sold them but are still considering another pair if AFR’ 195’s ?
I heard somewhere you could buy the Profiler heads from a company called ATK and those castings have a std location exhaust port. Might be something to consider.
I once had a 10:1 compression 406 with 235cc Pro topline RHs heads. Some might say they are large for a mild street compression engine. This particular engine had a dirt track 105 lsa solid roller camshaft and a super victor intake. It was no slouch down low and flashed the 3000 rpm stall street fighter converter to 4200 rpm. It was a great combo. Lot’s of fun..
yours will probably be even better on the street with your choice of camshaft
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:12 pm
by hoffman900
IMO, you should let Mike pick out the profile / cam timing based on the heads you choose, and not the other way around. It would be the same cost and you'll have a better / faster engine.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:26 pm
by 77cruiser
Thought I had heard they were using Dart heads now, but the website still shows these.
https://www.high-performance-engines.co ... c70195.htm
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:08 pm
by 65dragster
Monza355, yes, I had AFR195’s and sold them because s I read a lot about the Pro-Filers and the great results from Chad or Eric’s work. I talked with Chad yesterday and he said Pro-Filer cut back their WD’s and he couldn’t get them easily any longer. He said the ATK versions was all I needed with the smallish cam. I called ATK and they said they quit using Pro-Filer and their heads are all Dart’s now. After talking to the ATK guy, I wasn’t convinced that their posted flow numbers were for the Dart’s. So that’s why I am back at trying to decide on heads again. D’oh!
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm
by 65dragster
Hoffman990, I agree. The cam is what Mike picked out for the AFR195’s. If I go with a different set of heads, I will definitely go back to Mike for an update before I purchase.
Re: Heads for 400 w/Mike Jones HR cam
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:20 pm
by steve cowan
I cant believe how cheap they are,not sure on the quality of valves,springs etc but buying bare and redoing the valve job and some porting could make for a nice budget head,
thanks for the link jim