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Question about 100% water injection

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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exhaustgases
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:49 pm

Sounds like they need to be made from Inconel.

Roy
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Roy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:22 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:49 pm
Sounds like they need to be made from Inconel.
Nozzles are mounted in the intake horn above the manifold, so the only heat they see is whatever the charge air cooler doesn't remove and normal engine bay heat. I really need to figure out how to put up pictures.

Roy
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Roy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:01 am

Image

Please excuse the rats nest of wiring and plumbing. Much of this system is made of cheap components which I am still testing, so i did not tidy up yet. Plus I have been swapping lines around trying nozzles.


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This shows a very active area. In the back is the main supply manifold, 1/2 nylon line feeding 4 1/4 outlet lines (1 spare in case I decide to add a 4th stage at WOT) In the front is the boost reference manifold which has all of my pressure switches, 5/10/20 psi.

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Cheapie water valves rated for 140psi (they stick with anything more.. did NOT know that at the time of purchase) $10/ea amazon.

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RV 8 gallon pottable water tank $50 including shipping wrapped in an old curtain for rub protection , and the mount I made from some scrap angle iron (why use good stuff? I use that on paying jobs!) Plus the 1.1 GPH@80psi ($35) pump which i turned up to 120 psi (It will go to 175 but my valves stuck :evil: ) you can also just barely see another valve to the left of the tank. When power is shut off to the system (which is tied in to the ecm ign+ power supply fuse) this valve opens (normally open, power to close) bleeding all pressure from the system back to the tank. This is a failsafe in case the relay feeding the pump decides to stick at key off (relay signal+ comes from ecm ign+, ecm ign+ is directly hooked to this valve.) Obviously we don't want to find out a valve leaked overnight and filled the intake up.

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The ugliest part of the system currently, this side is truly under development. RV water filter made by camco used as a pre-filter for the reverse osmosis filter above it. My plan is to use a garden hose to fill the tank, thus making any mpg gains close to free (otherwise what little gains there are would be useless)


I am currently waiting for a .5L rv accumulator to show up in the mail to add to the pressure side. The pump is cycling so much that its doing all kinds of bad things. But thats because I have found you can inject a LOT more water than I thought. Stage 1 started as 60ml/min and is now up to 275ml/min. Stage 2 is 175ml/min. Stage 3 is using my original stage 1 nozzle, 60 ml/min. I need to purchase more but I want to iron out the issues first. Next I am going to run both the 275 and the 60 together for stage 1and see if it quenches out.

Roy
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Roy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:02 am

Image

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That is my largest nozzle (275) which I am currenly using for stage 1, just plugged almost solid on my way to the shop. Distilled water is out as the solution. Next is water soluble cutting oil.

Roy
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Roy » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:49 am

Initial mpg results are in.

100-120psi supply pressure, snow performance nozzles, 5/10/20psi

Baseline 18.6mpg

Stage 1 60ml
Stage 2 175ml
Stage 3 275ml
18 mpg
EGT reduction 50-150F on the road.

Stage 1 175ml
Stage 2 275ml
Stage 3 turned off
17.6 mpg
EGT reduction 150-300F on the road.

Will update on water soluble oil in a few more days. Hasn't plugged in 2 days

Kevin Johnson
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:02 am

It sounds like your injection system had some contamination that was not completely flushed out.

If you like reading FDA documentation, here is a start: https://www.fda.gov/inspections-complia ... system-793

Many of my chemical compounding customers had issues with biological growth from their water supplies which were also the source of their distilled water operations for blending.

https://www.sierrasprings.com/files/non ... 022417.pdf

Table 3 appears to show what contaminant levels the FDA has established for "distilled water" and your chosen supplier may meet them to a lesser or greater degree.

Roy
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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Roy » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:31 am

Update #2

Test #3a
Stage 1 60ml
Stage 2 275ml
Stage 3 175ml
19.1 mpg
Ran out of water 100 miles from home so this could be a fluke.

Test #3b will be another full 400 mile tank of fuel.

6oz of water soluble oil to 10 gallons of water seems to have fixed the rust issue, no rust issues in about 4-5 days now, which is longer than both previous times I had issues.

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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by Kevin Johnson » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:56 am

Metal working fluids typically have a biocide/preservative of some type in them. It sounds like (?) you have been using the fluid continuously now.

We used to refer people to Dow Chemical because they were willing to test samples of people's product and provide a dosage level recommendation at no charge.

Here is an information sheet: http://www.bencide.co.kr/data/DOWICIDE.pdf

I am glad your tests are proceeding smoothly now. =D>

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Re: Question about 100% water injection

Post by shoedoos » Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:43 pm

Roy, what is plugging up the jets?

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