Question about 100% water injection

[Firechicken]

I run a 2 stage water injection system on my turbo car and just use straight tap water. Our water has some mineral content but it's not high by any means. I have brass misting nozzles which don't rust and have never had any problems with clogging either. First stage 500cc/min nozzle. Second stage has 2 - 175cc/min nozzles.

[shoedoos]

https://www.ispray.com/ecatalog/fine-spray/en

[Jeff Lee]

My turbo 4-cylinder VW - I’ve been running Snow single port injection for a long time. I used to buy distilled water on a 50/50 mix. I started using RO water from my kitchen; much more convenient. I have just converted to a 4-port injection to help combat the combustion chamber issues with a direct injection engine. Have not run it yet.

[Roy]

test 3b
Stage 1 60ml
Stage 2 375ml
Stage 3 175ml
18.3mpg
EGT lower 200F on average. Unloaded truck in all tests so far.

I should note, stage 1 is on at least 50-75% of the time. Stage 2 is maybe 10-20%, stage 3 is really only on hauling butt on the highway or when driving aggressively.

[Roy]

Test 4
Stage 1 60ml
Stage 2 off
Stage 3 175ml
17.8

[Roy]

Test 5
1-3% methanol, 97-99% water
Same stages as test 4

18.1mpg

1 gallon of 8 year old -20 washer fluid added. Who knows what the exact meth content was by now, but it was added to 9 gallons of water so.. 1-3% overall

[Roy]

Test 5b
18.1mpg
Same as test 5, waiting on next set of nozzles from prometh to show up in the mail, figured I'd record results regardless. Could also be considered a variation test to see what the mileage varies from the right foot. To note, each fill up has been at the same exact pump at the station, each time topped off until it was within 1" of the fill cap. This test had some extended idling time compared to the first, mileage realistically would be closer to 18.2-18.3. Roughly 30 minutes idle time extra, fueling rate probably half a gallon per hour.. not much effect but obviously there is some effect.

Prometh nozzles!
https://prometh.com/collections/nozzles ... n-nozzle-1
https://prometh.com/collections/nozzles ... ion-nozzle
https://prometh.com/collections/nozzles ... n-nozzle-1

To convert snows flow rates @60 psi to prometh flow rates @100 psi. The formula is to my knowledge

Square root(what you want divided by what you have) x what you have

As anyone with a flowbench will verify (as I have) this formula is close but never perfectly matches reality but close is good enough in this scenario.

Square root (100/60)x 60ml (or 175, or 275, or whatever).

I'll do the math next time.

[Roy]

Test #6
Stage 1 0.50 GPH/32 CC Prometh
Stage 2 0.75 GPH/47 CC Prometh
Stage 3 1.0 GPH/63 CC
18.2 MPG

Snow nozzles converted to prometh flow pressure are as bellow
60ml (1ml=1cc) @60psi = 1.23 GPH/77.45 CC @ 100 psi
175ml @ 60 psi = 3.58 GPH/225.9 CC @ 100 psi
375ml @ 60 psi = 7.67 GPH/484.1 CC @ 100 psi

The very interesting thing to me is that the mileage really didn't improve. EGT's are definitely higher (We will call it a 100F reduction from no water.) There's a long hill on my way to work which gives me an idea what reduction there is, as well as general driving. My truck simply does not have a problem with egts even when loaded with 10k on the gooseneck, so this aspect I can really only give the reader an idea of what to expect.. Plus I have no reason to hook to the gooseneck this season as my puller is torn apart and there's too much work at the shop to even worry about toys.

Another interesting thing to me is that my water tank seems to have gone down at the same rate as before, maybe slightly less. This could be a fluke (maybe there's a leak I'm not seeing)

I miss the other set of nozzles, turbo spooled in noticeably faster. Once the little bit of meth was added it cleaned the small amount of smoke up I get between shifts.

Unsure about my next step. I think I am going to try turning off stage 1 and see if there is simply not enough heat in the chamber to see a gain. Normal cruising with stage 1 turned on is at least 600F after the turbo. All the previous tests it stayed right about 600F, with this test it runs about 650F.

As promised, here are the snow nozzles in a half poured out bottle of water. Removed the label to let the sunlight hit it more (sunlight kills bacteria in clear bottles due to UV radiation. Look it up, its a genuine survival knowledge fact)

This is after 4 days. I was going to do daily but I kind of forgot about it.



Anyone have some ideas? The amount of advertising and hearsay over the years says there are gains to be had, but I am starting to doubt the claims in everyday driving.

[Kevin Johnson]

...
Anyone have some ideas? ...

Buy new Snow nozzles. Looks/reads like they are plated and the plating was broken-through/abraded-off early on.

[Roy]

Why would I do that? The prometh nozzles are the same price and a better selection. Im planning on doing the same test with them later on however. And I noticed today I have a slow drip on one of my fittings on the tank.. so found why it seems like its using the same amount.

The entire time I have had this system installed all fluids have ran through a filter before ever entering the tank/system. The nozzles themselves have a 100 micron screen built in. If the plating was abraded off then quite frankly it's cheap plating.

Snow offers a warranty on their kits.. but only if you buy their boost juice and only use it at $10/gal. Reading into it, they use a mixture of 49% methanol, 51% water, trace amount of corrosion inhibitors (supposedly .5%).

I rebuild semi truck engines/transmissions/rears for a living. Most reman centers will only warrant their work if you purchase their specified oil and have their specified shop pull the item in question back out for warranty. I have been into fresh reman transmissions and I do see why, their tolerances on gear lash, sliding clutches, etc is definitely on the loose end. I have heard the stories of how these companies have gotten out of the warranty.

When I rebuild an engine with oem or aftermarket parts I warrant my labor under all circumstances so long as it wasn't truly abused (even then I stand behind my work!). I don't specify an oil, a break in procedure, a fuel additive, nothing. I don't come up with excuses as to why I'm not liable. If it's my fault I eat it because that's how I sleep at night. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops to ensure you're getting a good value for the money you have spent.

I don't mean to offend Kevin, but I keep getting a feeling that you are biased toward snow's nozzles, and it's nothing personal against you. I read a lot of quality information on this forum, and started this topic to try and contribute some of my own information as well as get some input from those who know more. (Which I do view yourself as someone who knows a great deal more than myself.) If you are biased toward snow then perhaps take a step back and put yourself in my shoes, just an average Joe trying something new to him. The average reader is not going to do exactly what I am doing (straight water for mpg gains) and spend money on water, the cost of the water negates any fuel savings. And they shouldn't have to.

As an act of good faith I will replace the nozzles in question at a later date, purchase distilled bottled water, drain and flush the system with a windshield washer fluid fill (to remove the water soluble oil) and repeat my earliest tests once I come to some better conclusions about sizing. As a matter of fact, I was wanting to do some testing with methanol mixtures as well.

[Kevin Johnson]

Why would I do that? ...

I miss the other set of nozzles, turbo spooled in noticeably faster. Once the little bit of meth was added it cleaned the small amount of smoke up I get between shifts.

[shoedoos]

I find it hard to beleive any of the water/meth injection retailers are making their own nozzles.....if you go to the ispray site I linked in an earlier response, my instinct says they are all on that website.....its a bit like the nitrous guys with their solenoids.....

[Roy]

Why would I do that? ...

I miss the other set of nozzles, turbo spooled in noticeably faster. Once the little bit of meth was added it cleaned the small amount of smoke up I get between shifts.

touche. That was pretty funny IMO. What would be ideal is a computer controlled system, more water when youre trying to spool the charger, less when you're just cruising.

[Kevin Johnson]

Why would I do that? ...

I miss the other set of nozzles, turbo spooled in noticeably faster. Once the little bit of meth was added it cleaned the small amount of smoke up I get between shifts.

touche. That was pretty funny IMO. What would be ideal is a computer controlled system, more water when youre trying to spool the charger, less when you're just cruising.

I think there are better than even odds that the new nozzles will have more pleasing characteristics. The continual corrosion cannot have helped.

[Roy933]

that is the right remark, listen to the guy