hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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rustbucket79
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by rustbucket79 »

At the risk of being way off base on 4.71 to 4.88 gears, let me theorize a moment.

An oval track is nothing more than 2 drag strips with corners joining them.

Power output is very similar between the cars, so making a pass at the end of the straight is tricky unless you stuff it deep in the turn, big slide up to the wall followed by getting freight trained by the field.

But what if you had your car dialed in, where you can floor it earlier off each corner, and you are deep in the engine’s powerband with a steep gear so you have more power pulses than the guy running 4.33’s, so you can drive around him as you exit the corner. Even if you’re banging off the limiter, he still isn’t gaining much on you, forcing him dive the car into the corner to try and get back around you. He slides up, etc.

Steeper gears are also helpful when you are stuck in traffic. When you can run your line by yourself you’ll be on the limiter more, but I believe the benefits while you’re stuck in traffic far outweigh the losses while you have the track to yourself.
dynoflo
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

Good post Rustbucket. The track is .522 mile. The point i was getting to is the tall gears are out of power at the flagman. We like to use momentum as a help getting off turn.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by Tuner »

dynoflo wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:17 pm Tuner timing retarded a few degrees at 5500 and above so i would guess hp peak was around 30 degrees
Tuner wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:56 pm 32 for best torque, but what makes best power?
I'm sorry, I thought you were describing finding best timing for overall was different than for best torque. When you can get back on the dyno so it isn't a guessing game, find what makes best numbers at the low and high end of the RPM range. All the dyno and track rodeos I have been to with these engines they always like a little more timing at the top than they do at peak torque, particularly with smaller carbs. I guess everybody's engine isn't the same.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by leahymtsps »

Is this a 2bbl or 650 4bbl. I've dynoed hundreds of these and can't ever remember seeing 1 that had the best torque
curve with 30 degrees. I will say some finds of pump fuels will limit you to 32-33. Not a big fan of Sunoco fuel as it
leaves allot of build up on the valves especially the exhaust.

(Cam will get you 35 hp and better valves and springs gets you 20 or so.)

Sorry but I've seen lots of improved versions of these engines and a cam and springs or just springs won't get
you anywhere near those kind of gains.

Asphalt is a different animal than dirt as you have to over rev them just so you are high enough in the curve to
get then to accelerate hardest from the center of the corner off. Usually taking gear out to gain straight away
speed is a waste of time as the engine is lower in the curve and won't get off the corner as well actually hurting
straight line speed.

BTW Both the original and cable seals can and are (defeated) by some who make a good living doing it.

Tom

Almost forgot have the springs cryoed and they will last much longer
dynoflo
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

i dont want to get into a pissing match over dyno numbers but my custom grind 602 cam is always around 35 hp more. getting rid of the tree trunk heavy valves with better springs is around 15 hp. thats my story and im sticking to it.
NewbVetteGuy
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

rustbucket79 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:55 pm I suppose it would be tough to sneak some VP CHP or CHP+ In the tank with its distinct odour. :mrgreen: I’ve found 5 to 10 hp with CHP.

Typical race gas is worth nothing or can even lose on a low compression engine, but pump fuel in a long main event can result in engine damage if the tune is off. 100 octane is a good, safe option for you.

Crate engines are supposed to level the field and keep engine costs in check, I wonder if the edge you’re looking for is in the car rather than the engine [-o<
That's what I was thinking, too. Isn't CHP and CHP+ literally designed for these crate motors?

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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

And not sure what 9HP or maybe up to 14 ft lbs across most the curve would be worth to you (bigger plug gap, decreased ignition timing requirement, and ability to run it on the ragged edge of lean), but the 8 cylinder Ionfire Plasma Ignition box works with an HEI, $600, though. http://www.ionfireignition.com/#cyl68

Vizard + Terry Walters' testing found 9 HP from it, BUT they didn't adjust spark gap, nor ignition timing. The initial spark is still performed by the HEI module, so you can't set the gap beyond what the HEI module can support, but combine it with an Iridium plug and your gap can go bigger still. There was an older thread here on ST saying with the bigger flame kernel from a significantly larger spark gap you can see reduced ignition timing requirements of 2-2 1/2 degrees, which should mean more average torque across the RPM band; Plasma increases the initial flame kernel size significantly further AND can reliably support a lean and mean mixture.

If you're allowed to do anything with the ignition and spark plugs and you can tune the timing and AFR to benefit from it there's SOMETHING there, but is it worth $600 plus way more expensive plugs to get there???


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dynoflo
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

thanks for replies but MSD only allowed. Must run Sunoco 100 or 110 bought at track.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

got everything together this evening. timing only retarding 2 degrees at wfo. locked timing to 34. glad i did it had fuel leak.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

went racing tonight and the coil and module definately helped. could get round cars we had problems passing before. we had to qualify for feature and it was best we ever qualified.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by Circlotron »

dynoflo wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:00 pm thanks for replies but MSD only allowed. Must run Sunoco 100 or 110 bought at track.
MSD only allowed? Someone ought to publish the race results, stating factually that MSD equipped cars came first, second and third last! They are all too ready to boast that MSD equipped cars came first, second and third in some race when basically (or actually) the whole field is running their stuff. A bit of reality would not go astray.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

You are right. I had 2 act up which they replaced but i will never run one myself. We are not required to run them.
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by Tuner »

Forgive me for saying this, but this thing actually makes an HEI have hotter spark and to a higher RPM than any other module, and it has a rev limiter that works OK.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/MSD-8364 ... gLaLfD_BwE

Image
dynoflo
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Re: hi performance coil and module for gm crate do anything?

Post by dynoflo »

Tuner lets just end this thread. Some tech guy is going to start pulling caps. A stock appearing module will pass.
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