Solid Lifter Differences

[earlymopar]

I have a Mopar small block solid lifter valve train and am somewhat surprised at the number of aftermarket lifter styles available over the OEM "dumb bell" style. Unfortunately there isn't much detail provided by any of the aftermarket companies as to what their lifter design provides over another. In my case, the OEM solid lifter "dumb bell design has a much deeper center section (is necked-down) which as I understand it is the oil metering groove that transfers oil to the heads and rockers. I see most of the aftermarket solid lifters have a much shallower groove. On the other hand, I see some that have no groove, some that have an oil hole in the bottom for supposed wear resistance at the camshaft. I can see that a no-groove design would have more surface area in the bore and would theoretically have more wear resistance and or could take more side load.

Any of you background in solid lifters that can offer some input and suggestions?

Thanks much.

[Krooser]

The dumbell works well but not in a race motor.

These SBM's need all the oil they can get to the mains and the rods... most performance builds tube the RH lifter gallery to control the oil to the lifters and direct it to the mains. The lifters get splash oil which seems to work fine when you don't idle much at 650 rpm.

I like the Crower/Comp design without the oil band. The style Mike Jones sells has the hole in the lifter face.

[benno318]

the lifters dont provide any oil up to the heads/rockers as there is a passage for each head thats fed timed oil from the cam journals 2 and 4.

i recall the factory slants and 273's i have mucked around with all seemed to use the dumbbells, but the poly engines i have mucked around with had either dumbbells, or more commonly a solid sided "bucket" type lifter where the pushrod seat is quite low down the bottom of the lifter. have seen where bigger cams in the LA engines will uncover the oil band from a dumbbell lifter at max lift, which of course would be a non issue with the straight sided poly type lifter.

[Geoff2]

No problem with lifter oiling on the SBM that came with sol lifters. The Poly engines had sol lifters & were good for tens of thousands of reliable miles.

[earlymopar]

The dumbell works well but not in a race motor.

These SBM's need all the oil they can get to the mains and the rods... most performance builds tube the RH lifter gallery to control the oil to the lifters and direct it to the mains. The lifters get splash oil which seems to work fine when you don't idle much at 650 rpm.

I like the Crower/Comp design without the oil band. The style Mike Jones sells has the hole in the lifter face.

Thanks Kroozer. Yes, I have read about the mains oiling issue and the routing oil with a secondary tube in the lifter area. I had a 273 from a boat racing (spec) class that had the oil mods in it when I got it. This particular engine is a Poly 318 or "A" series which is from the block perspective, not a whole lot different from the LA 273-340. What solid lifter would you consider for a street / performance engine?

- EM

[earlymopar]

It's interesting that you have seen both solid side and dumb bell style in Poly 318s given both designs seem quite different from an oiling perspective. I'd really like to know what the year and car or truck model the solid-side lifters came out of. I'm hoping to make a decision soon and purchase the lifters that I need which of course I'll then use for push rod measurement and ordering.

- EM

the lifters dont provide any oil up to the heads/rockers as there is a passage for each head thats fed timed oil from the cam journals 2 and 4.

i recall the factory slants and 273's i have mucked around with all seemed to use the dumbbells, but the poly engines i have mucked around with had either dumbbells, or more commonly a solid sided "bucket" type lifter where the pushrod seat is quite low down the bottom of the lifter. have seen where bigger cams in the LA engines will uncover the oil band from a dumbbell lifter at max lift, which of course would be a non issue with the straight sided poly type lifter.

[earlymopar]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm working on Geoff so the question is not about changing from hydraulic to solid but rather, what solid lifter "style" to purchase for my new poly. This is a stock stroke, stock displacement engine with a lot of pieces, machining and porting that will be roughly 450 H.P.. This is a street / performance build paired to a TK0-600 5-speed.

- EM

No problem with lifter oiling on the SBM that came with sol lifters. The Poly engines had sol lifters & were good for tens of thousands of reliable miles.

[Krooser]

I don't know if the poly engine has the wonky pushrod angles that the LA engines suffer from. That may be the reason for the deep seat in the lifters... a longer pushrod might might straighten out the angle?

Some LA blocks suffer from a short lifter bore which allows oil to escape from the lifter bore when using a high lift cam. Not sure what lifts would be an issue but a non oil band lifter fixes that.

A stock or mildly modded engine should be able to use any style lifter.

Tubing the block in the right oil gallery should not be needed. I would do the other common oiling mods as Charles Sanborn outlined in his moparts.com posts.

[earlymopar]

No. The valve arrangement is one of the major advantages of the Poly head design over the LA. Take a look at the Gen III Hemi which is as close as you can get to the Poly valve layout without being a direct copy. Yes, I realize I can use any of the lifter styles available. I'm just trying to get clear information on the different features on each and what the design intent of each is.

- EM

I don't know if the poly engine has the wonky pushrod angles that the LA engines suffer from. That may be the reason for the deep seat in the lifters... a longer pushrod might might straighten out the angle?

Some LA blocks suffer from a short lifter bore which allows oil to escape from the lifter bore when using a high lift cam. Not sure what lifts would be an issue but a non oil band lifter fixes that.

A stock or mildly modded engine should be able to use any style lifter.

Tubing the block in the right oil gallery should not be needed. I would do the other common oiling mods as Charles Sanborn outlined in his moparts.com posts.

[Walter R. Malik]

I have a Mopar small block solid lifter valve train and am somewhat surprised at the number of aftermarket lifter styles available over the OEM "dumb bell" style. Unfortunately there isn't much detail provided by any of the aftermarket companies as to what their lifter design provides over another. In my case, the OEM solid lifter "dumb bell design has a much deeper center section (is necked-down) which as I understand it is the oil metering groove that transfers oil to the heads and rockers. I see most of the aftermarket solid lifters have a much shallower groove. On the other hand, I see some that have no groove, some that have an oil hole in the bottom for supposed wear resistance at the camshaft. I can see that a no-groove design would have more surface area in the bore and would theoretically have more wear resistance and or could take more side load.

Any of you background in solid lifters that can offer some input and suggestions?

Thanks much.

What O.E.M. solid flat lifter Chrysler Corporation built engine oils the top end through the lifter & pushrod ...?
The "dumb-bell" lifter of which you refer has no oil IN it.

A plain "flat-side" lifter, having no annulus at all, works best for anything other than pushrod oiling in a solid lifter, High Performance situation. It also has less area "leak path" exposed to pressurized oil .

[benno318]

as far as im concerned the poly has even worse angles for the pushrods, for the inlet rockers at least. for the la they all became much like the polys pushrod angle for the exhaust.

my memory is telling me the earlier polys (as in pre-1960??) had the dumbbell type.
Certainly, a really original unmolested 58 313 poly i have just been involved in machining had dumbbell tappets, my personal 64 phoenix's virgin engine had straight sided tappets and so have many many 318 polys post 62 that i have pulled down.

[earlymopar]

I have a Mopar small block solid lifter valve train and am somewhat surprised at the number of aftermarket lifter styles available over the OEM "dumb bell" style. Unfortunately there isn't much detail provided by any of the aftermarket companies as to what their lifter design provides over another. In my case, the OEM solid lifter "dumb bell design has a much deeper center section (is necked-down) which as I understand it is the oil metering groove that transfers oil to the heads and rockers. I see most of the aftermarket solid lifters have a much shallower groove. On the other hand, I see some that have no groove, some that have an oil hole in the bottom for supposed wear resistance at the camshaft. I can see that a no-groove design would have more surface area in the bore and would theoretically have more wear resistance and or could take more side load.

Any of you background in solid lifters that can offer some input and suggestions?

Thanks much.

What O.E.M. solid flat lifter Chrysler Corporation built engine oils the top end through the lifter & pushrod ...?
The "dumb-bell" lifter of which you refer has no oil IN it.

A plain "flat-side" lifter, having no annulus at all, works best for anything other than pushrod oiling in a solid lifter, High Performance situation. It also has less area "leak path" exposed to pressurized oil .

I must have confused you. I never referred to the lifter "having oil in it". However the groove width and depth does have a part in metering oil. That's what I was referring to.

[earlymopar]

as far as im concerned the poly has even worse angles for the pushrods, for the inlet rockers at least. for the la they all became much like the polys pushrod angle for the exhaust.

my memory is telling me the earlier polys (as in pre-1960??) had the dumbbell type.
Certainly, a really original unmolested 58 313 poly i have just been involved in machining had dumbbell tappets, my personal 64 phoenix's virgin engine had straight sided tappets and so have many many 318 polys post 62 that i have pulled down.

I've found both lifter styles were used which is one reason why there are also a few different push rod lengths even within the the later poly design up to 66'.

- EM

[Walter R. Malik]

I have a Mopar small block solid lifter valve train and am somewhat surprised at the number of aftermarket lifter styles available over the OEM "dumb bell" style. Unfortunately there isn't much detail provided by any of the aftermarket companies as to what their lifter design provides over another. In my case, the OEM solid lifter "dumb bell design has a much deeper center section (is necked-down) which as I understand it is the oil metering groove that transfers oil to the heads and rockers. I see most of the aftermarket solid lifters have a much shallower groove. On the other hand, I see some that have no groove, some that have an oil hole in the bottom for supposed wear resistance at the camshaft. I can see that a no-groove design would have more surface area in the bore and would theoretically have more wear resistance and or could take more side load.

Any of you background in solid lifters that can offer some input and suggestions?

Thanks much.

What O.E.M. solid flat lifter Chrysler Corporation built engine oils the top end through the lifter & pushrod ...?
The "dumb-bell" lifter of which you refer has no oil IN it.

A plain "flat-side" lifter, having no annulus at all, works best for anything other than pushrod oiling in a solid lifter, High Performance situation. It also has less area "leak path" exposed to pressurized oil .
It has a greater "leak path" around its circumference for hemorrhaging more oil, though. The only good thing is that about half that Hemorrhaging oil would help the cam lobe / lifter face lubrication.

I must have confused you. I never referred to the lifter "having oil in it". However the groove width and depth does have a part in metering oil. That's what I was referring to.

You miss the entire point ... The width & depth in the middle of a Mopar "dumb-bell" type solid lifter has absolutely NOTHING to do with metering any oiling to the top end of the engine.
It does present a larger "leak path" around its circumference to allow hemorrhaging more oil, though. The only good thing is about half that hemorrhaging oil would help the cam lobe / lifter lubrication.

[earlymopar]

I did not miss your point. I just replied to the groove detail, regardless of where the oil goes afterward.