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oilless engine

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Belgian1979
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oilless engine

Post by Belgian1979 »

Guys,

A question that pertains mostly to engines that drive generators: would it be possible to build an internal combustion engine, especially working on diesel fuel, that would not need oil to lubricate the crankshaft, camshaft, rods etc. ?
I have heard (once upon a time) that GM/Opel had been venturing into something like this but abandonned the project due to too much protest from their dealers...No specific details though.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by panic »

venturing into something like this

The project was called "Perpetual Motion 1.01"
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Re: oilless engine

Post by jeff swisher »

2 stroke as you know uses the oil in the fuel to lube the parts.
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Re: oilless engine

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Belgian1979
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Re: oilless engine

Post by Belgian1979 »

jeff swisher wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am 2 stroke as you know uses the oil in the fuel to lube the parts.
Yes, I know, but as mentioned I was told that Opel did actually had a 4-stroke that didn't need oil. Do not know more specifics.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by Kevin Johnson »

I think low sulfur diesel would have effectively killed that dream.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by pdq67 »

I think you might be talking about the, "Polimotor"..

Here --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine

I haven't kept up with concept so ain't much help.

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Re: oilless engine

Post by Belgian1979 »

From what I remember, the bearings were some kind of needle bearing type requiring no lube, but again no specifics.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by Belgian1979 »

Kevin Johnson wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:54 pm I think low sulfur diesel would have effectively killed that dream.
That might very well be possible.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by panic »

requiring no lube

Those needle bearing piston skirts and valve stems are going to be tough
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Re: oilless engine

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Back when I had my Mercedes diesel there was lots of discussion about the wear increase on the internal injection pump components with the shift to low sulfur diesel. For a low rpm diesel driving a generator, diesel fuel would have made a passable lube. Cue additives being needed etc.
I think the way the increased wear was handled was to change the wear standard. :lol:
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Re: oilless engine

Post by Belgian1979 »

That's another way to solve the problem indeed :lol:
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Re: oilless engine

Post by pdq67 »

Kevin Johnson wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:09 am Back when I had my Mercedes diesel there was lots of discussion about the wear increase on the internal injection pump components with the shift to low sulfur diesel. For a low rpm diesel driving a generator, diesel fuel would have made a passable lube. Cue additives being needed etc.
I think the way the increased wear was handled was to change the wear standard. :lol:
I think that if anybody bothers to look deep into the subject of, "Biodiesel", that one might find that it has excellent lubricity properties and is used as a diesel fuel additive to replace the removed sulfur.

UMC here in town has a excellent Biodiesel Prof. in their Ag School. I contacted him, but if I remember right ,he passed on its lubricity properties because he looked at the fuel making and usage if it, not the lubricity end. I want to say that his name is Schumacher or something like it, it's been years....

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Re: oilless engine

Post by Kevin Johnson »

pdq67 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:48 pm ...

I think that if anybody bothers to look deep into the subject of, "Biodiesel", that one might find that it has excellent lubricity properties and is used as a diesel fuel additive to replace the removed sulfur.

UMC here in town has a excellent Biodiesel Prof. in their Ag School. I contacted him, but if I remember right ,he passed on its lubricity properties because he looked at the fuel making and usage if it, not the lubricity end. I want to say that his name is Schumacher or something like it, it's been years....

pdq67
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24433.pdf

Schumacher, L. (1995). The Physical and Chemical Characterization of BiodieseVLow Sulfur
Diesel Fuel Blends. NBB # 52019-1. Jefferson City, MO: National Biodiesel Board.
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Re: oilless engine

Post by MadBill »

Kevin Johnson wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:21 pm..
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24433.pdf

Schumacher, L. (1995). The Physical and Chemical Characterization of BiodieseVLow Sulfur
Diesel Fuel Blends. NBB # 52019-1. Jefferson City, MO: National Biodiesel Board.
Encyclopedia Johnson delivers yet again! \:D/
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