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oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:14 am
by Belgian1979
Guys,
A question that pertains mostly to engines that drive generators: would it be possible to build an internal combustion engine, especially working on diesel fuel, that would not need oil to lubricate the crankshaft, camshaft, rods etc. ?
I have heard (once upon a time) that GM/Opel had been venturing into something like this but abandonned the project due to too much protest from their dealers...No specific details though.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:38 am
by panic
venturing into something like this
The project was called "Perpetual Motion 1.01"
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am
by jeff swisher
2 stroke as you know uses the oil in the fuel to lube the parts.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:23 am
by rebelyell
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:38 am
by Belgian1979
jeff swisher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:07 am
2 stroke as you know uses the oil in the fuel to lube the parts.
Yes, I know, but as mentioned I was told that Opel did actually had a 4-stroke that didn't need oil. Do not know more specifics.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:54 pm
by Kevin Johnson
I think low sulfur diesel would have effectively killed that dream.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:39 pm
by pdq67
I think you might be talking about the, "Polimotor"..
Here --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine
I haven't kept up with concept so ain't much help.
pdq67
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:06 am
by Belgian1979
From what I remember, the bearings were some kind of needle bearing type requiring no lube, but again no specifics.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:07 am
by Belgian1979
Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:54 pm
I think low sulfur diesel would have effectively killed that dream.
That might very well be possible.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:17 am
by panic
requiring no lube
Those needle bearing piston skirts and valve stems are going to be tough
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:09 am
by Kevin Johnson
Back when I had my Mercedes diesel there was lots of discussion about the wear increase on the internal injection pump components with the shift to low sulfur diesel. For a low rpm diesel driving a generator, diesel fuel would have made a passable lube. Cue additives being needed etc.
I think the way the increased wear was handled was to change the wear standard.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:40 pm
by Belgian1979
That's another way to solve the problem indeed
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:48 pm
by pdq67
Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:09 am
Back when I had my Mercedes diesel there was lots of discussion about the wear increase on the internal injection pump components with the shift to low sulfur diesel. For a low rpm diesel driving a generator, diesel fuel would have made a passable lube. Cue additives being needed etc.
I think the way the increased wear was handled was to change the wear standard.
I think that if anybody bothers to look deep into the subject of, "Biodiesel", that one might find that it has excellent lubricity properties and is used as a diesel fuel additive to replace the removed sulfur.
UMC here in town has a excellent Biodiesel Prof. in their Ag School. I contacted him, but if I remember right ,he passed on its lubricity properties because he looked at the fuel making and usage if it, not the lubricity end. I want to say that his name is Schumacher or something like it, it's been years....
pdq67
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:21 pm
by Kevin Johnson
pdq67 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:48 pm
...
I think that if anybody bothers to look deep into the subject of, "Biodiesel", that one might find that it has excellent lubricity properties and is used as a diesel fuel additive to replace the removed sulfur.
UMC here in town has a excellent Biodiesel Prof. in their Ag School. I contacted him, but if I remember right ,he passed on its lubricity properties because he looked at the fuel making and usage if it, not the lubricity end. I want to say that his name is Schumacher or something like it, it's been years....
pdq67
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24433.pdf
Schumacher, L. (1995). The Physical and Chemical Characterization of BiodieseVLow Sulfur
Diesel Fuel Blends. NBB # 52019-1. Jefferson City, MO: National Biodiesel Board.
Re: oilless engine
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:51 pm
by MadBill
Encyclopedia Johnson delivers yet again!