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Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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pdq67
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Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by pdq67 »

I was just over here so have to ask why Ardun never made a SBC Hemi head conversion?

Too early time-wise?

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/modern- ... -ferguson/

pdq67
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Ask directly; I am sure you would not be the first:


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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Tuner »

At least the SBC got Zora's cam.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by PackardV8 »

ImageJust to review the history, the Ardun OHV conversion was developed to get more power from the flathead V8 in Ford medium trucks. That rodders picked it up later was an unanticipated consequence.

For those who've never seen one up close, the Ardun hemi OHV conversion makes the engine hugely wider and taller.

Image
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by NormS »

The story I heard, was that at the start of WW2, some of our smaller tanks were built with the flathead Ford V8, and that more power was needed because of the weight of the tank. The Ardun heads evidently took care of that problem.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by englertracing »

Hey pdq
Have you ever considered it would be easier to put a newer drivetrain in something.
You know motor and trans mounts
Than to Frankenstein an old junk pinchport pooch thats neutered by a 3" stroke?

Have you ever seen an LS7? In person?
Do you know how much you would have to spend on a gen 1 turd to truly get it to match?
Ok its not that hard to get it to match a stock one powerwise. But to get the raised/large cam and the orderly intake location, your talking an aftermarket block and symmetrical heads.
Why not just start off with one that comes that way?
Afraid to make motor mounts???
Someone already makes them
Whats the excuse now?
Why don't you go down the the junk yard and buy yourself a junk LS and pull it down and see for yourself that there's just about nothing better about a gen 1
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by PackardV8 »

NormS wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:23 pm The story I heard, was that at the start of WW2, some of our smaller tanks were built with the flathead Ford V8, and that more power was needed because of the weight of the tank. The Ardun heads evidently took care of that problem.
Better re-check that story. The M24 Chaffee US tanks used two flathead Cadillac V8s, not Ford.

The Ardun was developed because in trucks high continuous high load applications, the constant flow of hot exhaust through the block caused the entire engine to overheat; the overhead-valve conversion routed the exhaust out more directly, and away from the block. That it also produced more power was a plus.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Schurkey »

Moser built DOHC 4-valve heads for SBC. Harvey Crane was involved.

Made the front cover of Hot Rod magazine. Perhaps others, too.

https://s908.photobucket.com/user/mojo_ ... t=2&page=1

A version of the Ardun heads were factory-installed in vehicles in South America.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

PackardV8 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:16 pm ,,, The M24 Chaffee US tanks used two flathead Cadillac V8s, not Ford.

...
I think early Shermans were switched over to a radial which had problems with oil aeration.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by panic »

why Ardun never made a SBC Hemi head conversion
It's a business, not a hobby.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by GLHS60 »

This is one story on why the Ardun Heads were created.

Thanks
Randy

Ardun Overhead Valve Hemi Head Conversion
Ford Motor Company had a rather large contract to furnish garbage trucks to the City of London. There being a difference in the way horsepower was rated in the US versus the UK, the engines were under powered and Ford was about to lose their contract. FoMoCo hired a young consultant engineer, a Russian emigrant, to address the problem. He designed an OHV head adaptation for the flathead. Later he was to achieve fame at Chevrolet as the father of the Corvette. His name was Zora Arkus-Duntov, and the head was named ARDUN (ARkusDUNtov. A surplus number of heads found their way to racers and hot rodders. Later Chrysler's first hemi was almost a dimensional copy, just short of it being interchangeable.
Ford Flathead V-8, Ardun OHV Conversion - Museum of American Speed

https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/fo ... ardun.html
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Thank goodness it was garbage truck motors and not fire engine pumps.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Pete1 »

As a bit of trivia, In the 60's Ed iskenderian made several sets of single cam (per head) desmodromic heads for the SBC. They were very successful in tests.
He advertised them in several magazines for a brief period but apparently the market was not ready for them so he didn't persue it. That would have been far better than Ardun's. Next best thing to F1 valve train....
I was building desmo Ducati's at the time so was very interested in that project. I talk to Ed once in awhile so next time I will see if I can get more info.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by GLHS60 »

Allegedly, the Ardun was to be a stop gap Engine for 1947.

Ford replaced it with the big 337 Lincoln Engine around 1948.

The Lincoln flathead easily powered both garbage and Fire trucks.

I often dream I'm working as a mon'backer on a Fire or trash truck.

The Ardun became the Emi-Sul Simca around 1966 in Brazil.

Thanks
Randy

Image




Kevin Johnson wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:16 pm Thank goodness it was garbage truck motors and not fire engine pumps.
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Re: Why no Ardun hemi head SBC conversion?

Post by Schurkey »

GLHS60 wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 pm This is one story on why the Ardun Heads were created
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbsid ... mca-years/

Story of Simca taking over the V8-60 when they bought Ford of France's assets.

If you scroll down far enough, they talk about putting Ardun-copy heads on some of the v8-60 style engines sold in Brazil starting in '66.
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