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Stock Eliminator secrets?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Kingbee
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Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Kingbee »

Since the 70s I’ve always enjoyed Stock eliminator drag racing. More so early on as the rules have loosened up as time has gone on.
I don’t expect anyone to tell their latest tricks of the trade, but were some of the methods used over the years for preparing these cars and there engines to be able to run hard within the rules, or at least with out getting caught.

The two tricks I know of is acid porting cylinder heads and spring mounting the carbs to allow the throttle linkage to tilt the carb back to draw more air in at the front edge of the base.

Whether practical or voodoo science let’s hear it!
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by maxracesoftware »

Kingbee wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:28 pm Since the 70s I’ve always enjoyed Stock eliminator drag racing. More so early on as the rules have loosened up as time has gone on.
I don’t expect anyone to tell their latest tricks of the trade, but were some of the methods used over the years for preparing these cars and there engines to be able to run hard within the rules, or at least with out getting caught.

The two tricks I know of is acid porting cylinder heads and spring mounting the carbs to allow the throttle linkage to tilt the carb back to draw more air in at the front edge of the base.

Whether practical or voodoo science let’s hear it!
this probably qualifies :
NHRA H/SA Stocker ( i think H/SA ?? ) , 327cid QJet 1.940/1.500 337.94732199 Cubic Inches
Comp Cams 12-999-3 Grind# CS 5688/5694 H6 Hyd Flat-Lifter Max-Area
.399/.410
.2660/.2740 106.0 Centers
258/264 @ .050"
304/310 @ .006" Lobe Lift

Racer brought me Cyl Heads to cut down 16 guide's tops to install 16 Seals on

Whoever did those Cyl Heads used about 3.000" long 0.502" OD Bronze Guides and cut each one
down just enough to control "Loft" and get extra Lift out the Cam ,
no Seals , just let retainers hit top of Guides as a stop ... no real guide top damage , just light touching marks .

So i warned the Racer about this .. but he still wanted me to mill guide tops down + put on seals ,
so i gave them about 0.150 clearance from Seal tops for a 0.390 Lift Cam,
and no back-to-back Dyno tests .. but after Seals+ mill.. he lost a solid Tenth in ET and about 2 MPH loss !
... from that point ... the Car never went as fast as it was :(
pretty sure he was Floating Valves now .. lost control, especially with old NHRA Stocker Rules had to have OEM Spring pressures
i think it was about 87lbs on seat at that time ??? not sure .. too long ago !
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Kingbee
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Kingbee »

Kingbee wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:28 pm Since the 70s I’ve always enjoyed Stock eliminator drag racing. More so early on as the rules have loosened up as time has gone on.
I don’t expect anyone to tell their latest tricks of the trade, but what were some of the methods used over the years for preparing these cars and there engines to be able to run hard within the rules, or at least with out getting caught.

The two tricks I know of is acid porting cylinder heads and spring mounting the carbs to allow the throttle linkage to tilt the carb back to draw more air in at the front edge of the base.

Whether practical or voodoo science let’s hear it!
maxracesoftware
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by maxracesoftware »

looks like you forgot to post anything ???

all i see is your previous 1st post as a Quote ???
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panic
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by panic »

Top secret: marry the tech leader's mom.
vortecpro
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by vortecpro »

Heres your secret

1. Do the work
2. Lots of testing
3. Don't be a bubble packer
Last edited by vortecpro on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Racing a NA NHRA stocker should be mandatory before any posting.
lefty o
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by lefty o »

ive always heard CHEAT! 8)
Kingbee
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Kingbee »

maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:44 pm looks like you forgot to post anything ???

all i see is your previous 1st post as a Quote ???
Must have done something wrong. All I have access to at the moment is my phone!
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by PRH »

The biggest lesson I’ve learned by helping out a few people with those things is......... how fast you can actually go without good heads, intakes, and high lift cams.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
Kingbee
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Kingbee »

vortecpro wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:11 pm Heres your secret

1. Do the work
2. Lots of testing
3. Don't be a bubble packer
Sorry I blew up. Like I said, not looking for the latest greatest way of doing things. Just thought it would be interesting to hear about some of the things that have been done over the years.

And when I say Secrets, I mean the things that are already known in the stock racing community but not necessarily by others who have not done it.

I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING A FAN.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by vortecpro »

Ok. Running a stocker is all about utilizing available power, and carrying HP past peak. This formula is a good jumping off point, but you can do much better, but a good start. 1320/MPH. The converter and trans are very important when it comes to performance. Its very important understand whats out there for performance, Example: go to NHRA live timing and go to stock eliminations, take a good look at the incremental these cars are running. And it really comes down to are you willing to do the work. And then theres the money part. If you have questions feel free to ask them.
Racing a NA NHRA stocker should be mandatory before any posting.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by DeezNutz »

When running stock eliminator run a super stock short block and hope they never want a piston out.
When running a super stocker run a comp eliminator short block... and again pray about not getting picked to pull a piston and rod.

And acid port the heads or port and cover it up with spray weld in stock... NHRA wouldn't know what a "stock" head even looks like anymore.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

Yes, the rules have loosened up. Just like Super Stock, Competition Eliminator and Pro Stock. But they're the same for everyone.

With an NHRA Stock Eliminator car, everything is important, Not just in the engine but everything....bumper to bumper. You have to be able to put aside preconceived notions about what is right or wrong and understand that there are very few right or wrongs...it all about what works for your situation. Just go to work and find the answers. Be methodical in your approach. With very few exceptions, A-B-A testing is mandatory. If you test something that slows you down, take that info and go the other way...but don't stop when you get back to where you started...keep going that direction and see what you find. That direction might require several other changes to capitalize on the potential. Doing that within the stringent rules is what makes the challenge fun, frustrating and ultimately rewarding.

These cars are extremely aggressive in the 60 foot/330 foot. Then they have to carry that through the gear changes all the way to the finish line without nosing over at 1,300 and getting picked off in the last 20 feet. If you look at the 60/330 foot times of these cars and compare them to bracket style cars, you'll quickly connect the dots.

Not all of the gains are under the hood. In my own Stocker, we've 'found' significant gains this season in some pretty unlikely places. :o

And there are lots of ways to race a Stocker. Some pretty good racers aren't killer fast...they run a couple tenths under the index and concentrate on their driving. Different strokes for different folks. Not better or worse..just different approach. It's all fun, though. :)
tenxal
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Racer brought me Cyl Heads to cut down 16 guide's tops to install 16 Seals on

Whoever did those Cyl Heads used about 3.000" long 0.502" OD Bronze Guides and cut each one
down just enough to control "Loft" and get extra Lift out the Cam ,
no Seals , just let retainers hit top of Guides as a stop ... no real guide top damage , just light touching marks .

So i warned the Racer about this .. but he still wanted me to mill guide tops down + put on seals ,
so i gave them about 0.150 clearance from Seal tops for a 0.390 Lift Cam,
and no back-to-back Dyno tests .. but after Seals+ mill.. he lost a solid Tenth in ET and about 2 MPH loss !
... from that point ... the Car never went as fast as it was :(
pretty sure he was Floating Valves now .. lost control, especially with old NHRA Stocker Rules had to have OEM Spring pressures
i think it was about 87lbs on seat at that time ??? not sure .. too long ago !
Yep. :wink:

Before the valve spring rule changed to allow any pressures as long as the spring remained the stock O.D., this was commonly done. Since the spring pressure couldn't control the lifter anyway, why not get even more aggressive on the profile and let the top of the valve guides limit the valve float? You could buzz the engines higher and the lifter getting lofted over the nose of the cam lobe gave you some more lift at the valve while still checking ok in tear down.

With the new spring rule, the lobes are even more aggressive but we're able to keep things under control.

And then there were (and are) the infamous Schubeck/Smith lifters..... :shock:
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Kingbee »

tenxal wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:12 am
maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Racer brought me Cyl Heads to cut down 16 guide's tops to install 16 Seals on

Whoever did those Cyl Heads used about 3.000" long 0.502" OD Bronze Guides and cut each one
down just enough to control "Loft" and get extra Lift out the Cam ,
no Seals , just let retainers hit top of Guides as a stop ... no real guide top damage , just light touching marks .

So i warned the Racer about this .. but he still wanted me to mill guide tops down + put on seals ,
so i gave them about 0.150 clearance from Seal tops for a 0.390 Lift Cam,
and no back-to-back Dyno tests .. but after Seals+ mill.. he lost a solid Tenth in ET and about 2 MPH loss !
... from that point ... the Car never went as fast as it was :(
pretty sure he was Floating Valves now .. lost control, especially with old NHRA Stocker Rules had to have OEM Spring pressures
i think it was about 87lbs on seat at that time ??? not sure .. too long ago !
Yep. :wink:

Before the valve spring rule changed to allow any pressures as long as the spring remained the stock O.D., this was commonly done. Since the spring pressure couldn't control the lifter anyway, why not get even more aggressive on the profile and let the top of the valve guides limit the valve float? You could buzz the engines higher and the lifter getting lofted over the nose of the cam lobe gave you some more lift at the valve while still checking ok in tear down.

With the new spring rule, the lobes are even more aggressive but we're able to keep things under control.

And then there were (and are) the infamous Schubeck/Smith lifters..... :shock:
These are the stories I'm looking for and maybe I should have stated that I'm looking for stories instead of secrets from the old days. I can appreciate all the work that goes into making a stocker run hard under tight rules and that's why I've always enjoyed the class.
I have a 68 Dodge Coronet/383 that runs 12.50s with the original shortblock, an old DC hyd. cam and unported cast heads. And as stated earlier its about making the whole car work. I gained ET by reducing brake drag, good fuel system, spending money on a GOOD convertor etc. etc.. I thank the Stock class for my way of thinking to make this happen.

Again, I'm not asking for anyone to tell me there latest combination. I just find it entertaining and educational to hear about things that are no longer closely guarded secrets even if it happened 40+ years ago.

Thanks for all the input!!
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