Stock Eliminator secrets?

[77cruiser]

Here is one standard volume and low volume.

Looks like there has been a bit of crap gone through that gear set.

I was going to add low volume looks to be low pressure now.

[408 Nova]

E.T. is wherever you can find it. And it's not always under the hood. Even with a well worked out chassis, it can be beneficial to go back and revisit some things after you've made gains in other areas.

Mid season this year, I went back and worked on this end. Found a little....



Two weeks later, it was this end that got some tweaks. Found a little more....

What did you do for gains?

[Old School]

And it pisses me off that National Dragster no longer publishes NHRA records. Before they dropped that ball, they listed the records but would no longer list the names of your crew or sponsors. I called them on that and I was told “nobody really cares about that stuff anymore”. Total BS! Before I raced in Stock Eliminator I would pay more attention to the record page than almost anything else. I knew who the movers and shakers were and knew someday I would be listed on that page in ND. I was driven by that desire.

" I knew who the movers and shakers were "

Jeff , i feel exactly like you do !

i'm glad i was Porting Heads at the "right time" when NHRA was still including names such as
Engine Builder / Head Porter / Sponser, etc along with the Driver's Name in the Record section !
That was a big help in getting me get early recognition + a lot more Porting + Dyno work !

Then NHRA just started putting only the Driver's name in the Records ,
so that probably hurt a lot of Guys just starting off trying to get recognition .

Also , the 396cid/375HP 4-bolt block STD-Bore no ring ridge i have , still has OEM serial numbers on Decks
Turbo400 automatic 396/375HP Deck numbers ... Engine+Block originally from Dickie Harrell Perf. ( Kansas City )

and the 1969 Camaro A/SA we set the Record had a 427cid/425HP engine,
no cheating tricks , no acid porting . etc , just simple build to NHRA Specs best we could do
back then on a tight Budget ! Set the NHRA A/SA record that was not broken,
then NHRA reset it back to minimum .
from memory .. set 10.78 ET , ran as fast as 10.72 ET

What year did you set the record with the A/SA Camaro?

[408 Nova]

A big part of my program has been the Elston 4-2-1 headers. We were testing headers and had four sets on the engine during one dyno session. What we saw with the Elston's led me to further conversation with Calvin and further gains both on the dyno and at the track. Where we ended up is about 180 degrees from how most approach things with a 305 or 350 Stocker engine, but it's worked well.

You have to have a good short block with minimal rotating drag, good heads and intake. Given that, I can't imagine doing another Stocker without starting with a set of Calvin's 4-2-1's and working backwards....starting at the collector and ending up at the cam.

On the dyno, we test the headers as they are run on the car.

4-2-1 stepped headers are the way to go on your setup?

Would that apply to a lot of other combos as well?

[maxracesoftware]

And it pisses me off that National Dragster no longer publishes NHRA records. Before they dropped that ball, they listed the records but would no longer list the names of your crew or sponsors. I called them on that and I was told “nobody really cares about that stuff anymore”. Total BS! Before I raced in Stock Eliminator I would pay more attention to the record page than almost anything else. I knew who the movers and shakers were and knew someday I would be listed on that page in ND. I was driven by that desire.

" I knew who the movers and shakers were "

Jeff , i feel exactly like you do !

i'm glad i was Porting Heads at the "right time" when NHRA was still including names such as
Engine Builder / Head Porter / Sponser, etc along with the Driver's Name in the Record section !
That was a big help in getting me get early recognition + a lot more Porting + Dyno work !

Then NHRA just started putting only the Driver's name in the Records ,
so that probably hurt a lot of Guys just starting off trying to get recognition .

Also , the 396cid/375HP 4-bolt block STD-Bore no ring ridge i have , still has OEM serial numbers on Decks
Turbo400 automatic 396/375HP Deck numbers ... Engine+Block originally from Dickie Harrell Perf. ( Kansas City )

and the 1969 Camaro A/SA we set the Record had a 427cid/425HP engine,
no cheating tricks , no acid porting . etc , just simple build to NHRA Specs best we could do
back then on a tight Budget ! Set the NHRA A/SA record that was not broken,
then NHRA reset it back to minimum .
from memory .. set 10.78 ET , ran as fast as 10.72 ET

What year did you set the record with the A/SA Camaro?

it should be early to mid 1980's .... i have most of info like Flow Sheet + hard copy Dyno sheets
should have exact Dates on them + i kept most copies of my NHRA National Dragster records in plastic containers .

a few good Dyno tests around 1988-89 ??? on 69 A/SA 427/425 HP were
swapping 2 same part number OEM aluminum dual-plane Manifolds back-to-back + Dragstrip tests
+ Flowbench tests + actual Mic/Caliper measurements of plenum + cross-sectional areas , etc.

1 manifold was worth much more Dyno HP + quicker down Dragstrip
the other same exact part number manifold was slower , less HP, and Engine exhaust sound was noticeably quiter on the Dyno
... checked manifold sealing/gaskets nothing we could find ... Flow Numbers were just about identical, so were actual CSA measurements

tried same A-B-A manifold swapping on another A/SA Camaro ... same Dragstrip results .

Woody eventually sold the A/SA Camaro with the 2nd best manifold ... Woody kept the best manifold
i think it ended up on his friends A/SA he had tried it on .

i have those Dyno sheets on that A/SA

Woody currently runs Chrysler Street Hemi B/SA (sometimes A/SA ) ... NHRA did a Pit side interview with him .,,its on YouTube .
Dyno sheets on Speed-Talk + Pics

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW

has a lot of Data in Notes section page on that Engine

[tenxal]

4-2-1 stepped headers are the way to go on your setup?
Would that apply to a lot of other combos as well?

I couldn't say if all combinations would benefit....there's a lot of grey area, there.

Due to the engineering, the Elston's opened the door to gains beyond simply bolting a good header on. In one sense, I was lucky. The initial dyno results with them showed that my camshaft program was was O.T.L. (out-to-lunch) big time, even for a conventional 4-2-1 header with a good merge collector. I expected to lose a few h.p. but pick up torque, as is common with this style header. What we actually saw was surprising, though! Enough that we A-B-A-B-A tested them just to make sure we weren't seeing some data acquisition wonkiness. Calvin offered guidance based on that and I continued down that path. That opened the door to several significant changes that gave other benefits. I will say that we're at with the intake/exhaust events on this thing is about as far off the beaten path as you can get.

It just shows that if you've got the basics covered...and covered well...there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[nhrastocker]

Woody currently runs Chrysler Street Hemi B/SA (sometimes A/SA ) ... NHRA did a Pit side interview with him .,,its on YouTube .
Dyno sheets on Speed-Talk + Pics

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW

has a lot of Data in Notes section page on that Engine

If you are talking about Woody Gary, he just won the NHRA National event in Houston, Texas with his Hemi Challenger.

https://youtu.be/09E0SgD_DU8

[maxracesoftware]

Woody currently runs Chrysler Street Hemi B/SA (sometimes A/SA ) ... NHRA did a Pit side interview with him .,,its on YouTube .
Dyno sheets on Speed-Talk + Pics

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW

has a lot of Data in Notes section page on that Engine

If you are talking about Woody Gary, he just won the NHRA National event in Houston, Texas with his Hemi Challenger.

https://youtu.be/09E0SgD_DU8

Yes ... Woody Gary
Attention in the Pits Episode 20: Woody Gary ( Lime-Green 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T runs in both A/SA and B/SA classes )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09E0SgD_DU8

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW


Craig Bourgeois also won the 2020 Comp Elim Championship
his 2nd Championship

 

[nhrastocker]

Woody currently runs Chrysler Street Hemi B/SA (sometimes A/SA ) ... NHRA did a Pit side interview with him .,,its on YouTube .
Dyno sheets on Speed-Talk + Pics

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW

has a lot of Data in Notes section page on that Engine

If you are talking about Woody Gary, he just won the NHRA National event in Houston, Texas with his Hemi Challenger.

https://youtu.be/09E0SgD_DU8

Yes ... Woody Gary
Attention in the Pits Episode 20: Woody Gary ( Lime-Green 1970 Dodge Challenger R/T runs in both A/SA and B/SA classes )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09E0SgD_DU8

one of included simulation files w/PipeMax v4.50 named :
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ.PMW


Craig Bourgeois also won the 2020 Comp Elim Championship
his 2nd Championship

 

Yes, I known Craig. I have worked with some of his stuff since I used to work and crew for his West Coast counterpart, Dean Carter who also runs a Jr Fueler. Craig and Dean are close buddies and share parts between each other.

[maxracesoftware]

Local Drag Racer ( New Iberia , LA ) Woody Gary A/SA Stocker
wins his 1st National Event / Wally

[BradH]

Any idea what the car & driver weight is for that Hemi Challenger?

And how many class cars do you see that display no product sponsor stickers, only the one mandatory series sponsor sticker? If he's got 'em, I don't see 'em.

[maxracesoftware]

Any idea what the car & driver weight is for that Hemi Challenger?

And how many class cars do you see that display no product sponsor stickers, only the one mandatory series sponsor sticker? If he's got 'em, I don't see 'em.

an A/SA Plymouth GTX = 3620.0 Lbs w/Driver
10.062 ET @ 130.69 MPH Density Altitude Ft = 2748.0
ASA_Plymouth_GTX__7000RPM__648HP__528TQ on my Dyno


Oct 23-25, 2020 Houston Raceway Park
2525 South FM 565 Baytown, TX 77523
A/SA = Lbs w/Driver ??
Houston 19th Qualifier Woody Gary 4555 A/SA 11.00=Index 10.257ET -0.743 Under

B/SA = 3855.0 Lbs w/Driver
10.040 ET @ 130.95 MPH ( Density Altitude = -240.0 Feet )
NHRA_Stocker_BSA_Street_Hemi_6900RPM_639.2HP_5600RPM_533.4TQ on my Dyno

One of Woody's Hemi Heads are better than the other ... 2 bad Intake Ports on 1 Head

the GTX has all great 8 Intake Ports CFM

since these Engines use Stocker Cams with 0.490Int/0.480Exh Valve Lifts
the differences in Cylinder Head CFM just show up a little in HP and RPM
but if it were SuperStock engines ... it would be a much larger difference in HP and RPM

[Jeff Lee]

You’re seeing a lot more Class cars without product stickers. Blame it on NHRA or the Contingency sponsors, but it has become increasingly difficult to have a product on the vehicle and get paid. Do you have a 1099 in place for our product? Did you buy the product from the correct source? Did you buy the product in the last 12 months? Is the sticker the current sticker? And the list goes on...
My car is fast approaching being done and the only stickers it gets are from those that actually did something to help me. Not necessarily free or discounted product, but helpful resources.

[BradH]

Larry & Jeff - Thanks for the responses to my questions and comments.

If I could afford the time & $ to get into it, I'd love to run something like a Stocker '70-71 440-6BBL E-body. That's why when I attend the races w/ the class cars, I spend a bunch of time walking through the pits talking to the Stocker guys about their cars and what works for them.

Even though I can build my street/strip car well outside of the boundaries of what's legal in Stock, I still run on stock-based suspension and only a 9" 275/60R15 DOT radial. Looks like that B/SA Challenger and my Challenger are very close in weight w/ driver. My new engine build "may" see 130 MPH under the right conditions, but I can't hang w/ those sort of 60-ft times and still drive it to & from the track.

[tenxal]

A lot has been made about Stockers being able to replace hydraulic lifters with solids.

Anyone care to opine on the performance difference is between the two lifter styles?