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Stock Eliminator secrets?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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jed
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by jed »

hmmm interesting approach. Start with the headers then build the engine around them. Being a novice I'm trying to under stand your approach. The class is restricted to what heads, intake and carburetor that the factory put on that engine so there isn't much you can do with them, so you tune the camshaft to the combination. Correct??
As far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package.
Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
RDY4WAR
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by RDY4WAR »

Possibly related to Stock and Super Stock engines, the LS engines have a trick for increasing the preload on the lifters with longer pushrods. It supposedly makes the lifter act like a short travel lifter, increasing stiffness of the valvetrain and making slightly more power. Is this a trick that could apply to older hydraulic lifter engines as well?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by EDC »

tenxal wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:21 am A big part of my program has been the Elston 4-2-1 headers. We were testing headers and had four sets on the engine during one dyno session. What we saw with the Elston's led me to further conversation with Calvin and further gains both on the dyno and at the track. Where we ended up is about 180 degrees from how most approach things with a 305 or 350 Stocker engine, but it's worked well.

You have to have a good short block with minimal rotating drag, good heads and intake. Given that, I can't imagine doing another Stocker without starting with a set of Calvin's 4-2-1's and working backwards....starting at the collector and ending up at the cam.

On the dyno, we test the headers as they are run on the car. :wink:

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Very smart man, Calvin. Spoke to him yesterday about our new engine package. He is doing our NMRA Coyote Stock headers in a few weeks. Getting the new ECU wired up at Racewires in PA but as soon as Troy is done, she's getting her new pipes and track testing!

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or you can get it a hell of a lot cheaper, when it's already been through the horse.

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jed
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by jed »

RDY4 how much more preload are you talking about. On a LS .025 longer push rod is about a half turn. Are you talking about 1 or 2 turns on the rocker adjustment.
tenxal
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

maxracesoftware wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:53 pmi guess you tried black electrical tape mod on the QJet rear metering rod holes ?
This is a better solution for several reasons. Danny Ashley is a smart, smart guy on QJets. It's a shame he doesn't do them anymore. His QJets are in high demand and rarely become available. I'm fortunate to have one of his plus several others to work with and learn from.

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tenxal
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

RDY4WAR wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:40 pmPossibly related to Stock and Super Stock engines, the LS engines have a trick for increasing the preload on the lifters with longer pushrods. It supposedly makes the lifter act like a short travel lifter, increasing stiffness of the valvetrain and making slightly more power. Is this a trick that could apply to older hydraulic lifter engines as well?
NHRA now lets the hydraulic lifter engines run solid lifters in Stockers.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

jed wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmAs far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package. Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
With the NHRA mandated stock ring groove widths (5/64, 5/64", 3/16" in my case), break-away torque is 11-12 lbs./ft. with a constant rotational of 8 lbs./ft.

That's the complete short block...fresh hone, crank installed/torqued, all 8 rods installed/torqued, all 8 pistons with the full ring packs, rear main seal, crank gear, cam gear and timing chain.

Thanks for the compliment. :)
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 77cruiser »

tenxal wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
jed wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmAs far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package. Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
With the NHRA mandated stock ring groove widths (5/64, 5/64", 3/16" in my case), break-away torque is 11-12 lbs./ft. with a constant rotational of 8 lbs./ft.

That's the complete short block...fresh hone, crank installed/torqued, all 8 rods installed/torqued, all 8 pistons with the full ring packs, rear main seal, crank gear, cam gear and timing chain.
I thought it would be less, but I guess with the fat rings it won't get much better. About the same as my 421 with skinny rings.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by Rob R »

I buzzed through the 12 pages of this thread on stock eliminator secrets, anybody mention ring spacers?

https://dragracingonline.com/archive/te ... %26hl%3Den
1972ho
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 1972ho »

WOW close to 15000.00 in headers that is more than I have spent on my whole car and it runs over a second under the index and that’s with a standard set of 2 inch hooker headers with a merge collector.WOW ain’t that something.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 86_regal »

77cruiser wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:50 am
tenxal wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
jed wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmAs far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package. Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
With the NHRA mandated stock ring groove widths (5/64, 5/64", 3/16" in my case), break-away torque is 11-12 lbs./ft. with a constant rotational of 8 lbs./ft.

That's the complete short block...fresh hone, crank installed/torqued, all 8 rods installed/torqued, all 8 pistons with the full ring packs, rear main seal, crank gear, cam gear and timing chain.
I thought it would be less, but I guess with the fat rings it won't get much better. About the same as my 421 with skinny rings.
Really?

THE lowest I’ve ever heard on a SBC (8 cylinder of course) was 7 lbs/ft of rotating torque... 1 lbs/ft difference could be error.

THE lowest I’ve ever witnessed was 11-12ish rotating and I’ve been fortunate enough to have been around a lot of very sharp and competent builders/racers.
86_regal
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 86_regal »

1972ho wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:41 am WOW close to 15000.00 in headers that is more than I have spent on my whole car and it runs over a second under the index and that’s with a standard set of 2 inch hooker headers with a merge collector.WOW ain’t that something.
...And why do you suppose that is...?

Here’s a hint... in question form.

How many more cars would you guess have competed in the 275HP 327 class in the past 50 years than the class your car competes in...?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by lefty o »

tenxal wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
jed wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmAs far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package. Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
With the NHRA mandated stock ring groove widths (5/64, 5/64", 3/16" in my case), break-away torque is 11-12 lbs./ft. with a constant rotational of 8 lbs./ft.

That's the complete short block...fresh hone, crank installed/torqued, all 8 rods installed/torqued, all 8 pistons with the full ring packs, rear main seal, crank gear, cam gear and timing chain.

Thanks for the compliment. :)
so the stock ring grooves are mandated, but does that mean you cant run a thinner ring with a spacer under it?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 1972ho »

I’m not really trying to be a smart azz are anything but that is a chuck of doe for a class that only pays 1200.00 to win if that and hardly any contingency.If I spent that kind of scratch I would be 2 seconds plus under if not more.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by nhrastocker »

lefty o wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:44 pm
tenxal wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:01 am
jed wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:23 pmAs far as the short block, what is a good inch pound number for a stock eliminator engine. Care to comment on the piston and ring package. Thanks for your professional input and practical experience to this thread.
With the NHRA mandated stock ring groove widths (5/64, 5/64", 3/16" in my case), break-away torque is 11-12 lbs./ft. with a constant rotational of 8 lbs./ft.

That's the complete short block...fresh hone, crank installed/torqued, all 8 rods installed/torqued, all 8 pistons with the full ring packs, rear main seal, crank gear, cam gear and timing chain.

Thanks for the compliment. :)
so the stock ring grooves are mandated, but does that mean you cant run a thinner ring with a spacer under it?
Yes, you can run spacers with a thin ring.
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