break-in oil

[RDY4WAR]

Thank you, RDY4WAR.

So the break in oil isn’t really about “wearing” the parts to shape, it’s more about adding a protective layer of anti-wear compounds to the parts?

My experience with break-ins is that with Nikasil played cylinders, one revs the engine to the redline three times and then it’s broken in — either the rings seal or don’t seal.

For flat tappet cams we run, the break-in may take longer and anti-wear substances may be more important. (We have to run high seated loads because of the turbo exhaust manifold space constraints.)

Correct. For example, the additive packages of the following in parts per million (ppm)...

Zn = Zinc, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
P = Phosphorus, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
Ca = Calcium, detergent
Mg = Magnesium, detergent
Mo = Molybdenum, friction modifier
B = Boron, extreme pressure

Rotella T1 SAE 30

Zn - 1100
P - 1000
Ca - 2100
Mg - 10
Mo - 60
B - 160

Driven BR30 SAE 30

Zn - 2800
P - 2500
Ca - 350
Mg - 0
Mo - 0
B - 110

The break-in oil is more about what it doesn't contain than what it does.

I prefer a break-in with several heat cycles. Crank it up, go to 2000 rpm for 5 minutes, shut it off, and let it cool all the way down. About 90% of the break-in is already done. The rest if fighting for that last 10% through repeated heat cycles with varying load and rpm. Some people will say they don't do a break-in procedure at all. Others say they just hit the track and romp on it. These people get by just fine. It's not the proper way to do it, and they might see more blow-by or oil consumption throughout the engine's life that they may or may not consider to be "normal." Their engine may only be good for 600 passes now instead of 1000 passes, but it might not matter if they're pulling it to refresh it every 300-500 passes anyway. This can be why you'll see some conflicting view points.

It's kinda the same way with OEMs and why you'll see sometimes wide tolerances in clearances and other specs. The ideal case may let the engine live to see 500k miles while the worst case may only last to 300k miles. It doesn't matter in their eyes when the average car gets sent to the junkyard at 250k miles anyway.

[PSA]

It's also a bit of difference between old school rings and more modern ones. The older ones you had a long time and window to break them in, now it's more of a "if you snooze you loose" type of deal.
So it's a lot of things that has to be done right, honing (difficult even with CNC), oil and load.
With the engines I worked on (OEM) the break in was all done after less than 15 minutes and had to be done under certain loads. So the old "I'll get it hot and check for leaks" wasn't an option. lol

[Roundybout]

Is ZDDP a sacrificial layer that needs replenishment? After a heat cycle it bonds to the metal to do its thing and I assume if no ZDDP was present in future oil changes it will continue to protect until circumstances wear it away?

Reason I mention this is we switched our air cooled toys to 0W/40 Mobil 1 and it has a higher amount of ZDDP (at least according to the MSD) than “regular” car passenger oils. We’ve noticed much better wear as far as rocker arms and other top end stuff compared to last year.

[RDY4WAR]

Is ZDDP a sacrificial layer that needs replenishment? After a heat cycle it bonds to the metal to do its thing and I assume if no ZDDP was present in future oil changes it will continue to protect until circumstances wear it away?

Reason I mention this is we switched our air cooled toys to 0W/40 Mobil 1 and it has a higher amount of ZDDP (at least according to the MSD) than “regular” car passenger oils. We’ve noticed much better wear as far as rocker arms and other top end stuff compared to last year.

ZDDP is sacrificial, but also subject to depletion. It forms a protective layer between parts in boundary lubrication. The higher the shearing forces in boundary and mixed lubrication, the greater the thickness of that protective layer needs to be and thus higher the rate of depletion and replenishment needs. Note that more ZDDP than necessary does not provide any additional wear protection. It just makes the oil more acidic.

Something else to note, since a lot of people refer to ZDDP simply as "zinc", the zinc is actually just a neat metal carrier for the molecule. It's the phosphorus and sulfur that provides the wear protection. You could replace zinc with titanium (TiDDP) or tungsten (WDDP), and it would perform pretty much the same. Zinc is just dirt cheap so it gets used instead. Also note that zinc is not limited by API standards, phosphorus and sulfur is.

[Byron454]

Thank you all for your Information Very Informative

[Krooser]

Thank you, RDY4WAR.

So the break in oil isn’t really about “wearing” the parts to shape, it’s more about adding a protective layer of anti-wear compounds to the parts?

My experience with break-ins is that with Nikasil played cylinders, one revs the engine to the redline three times and then it’s broken in — either the rings seal or don’t seal.

For flat tappet cams we run, the break-in may take longer and anti-wear substances may be more important. (We have to run high seated loads because of the turbo exhaust manifold space constraints.)

Correct. For example, the additive packages of the following in parts per million (ppm)...

Zn = Zinc, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
P = Phosphorus, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
Ca = Calcium, detergent
Mg = Magnesium, detergent
Mo = Molybdenum, friction modifier
B = Boron, extreme pressure

Rotella T1 SAE 30

Zn - 1100
P - 1000
Ca - 2100
Mg - 10
Mo - 60
B - 160

Driven BR30 SAE 30

Zn - 2800
P - 2500
Ca - 350
Mg - 0
Mo - 0
B - 110

The break-in oil is more about what it doesn't contain than what it does.

I prefer a break-in with several heat cycles. Crank it up, go to 2000 rpm for 5 minutes, shut it off, and let it cool all the way down. About 90% of the break-in is already done. The rest if fighting for that last 10% through repeated heat cycles with varying load and rpm. Some people will say they don't do a break-in procedure at all. Others say they just hit the track and romp on it. These people get by just fine. It's not the proper way to do it, and they might see more blow-by or oil consumption throughout the engine's life that they may or may not consider to be "normal." Their engine may only be good for 600 passes now instead of 1000 passes, but it might not matter if they're pulling it to refresh it every 300-500 passes anyway. This can be why you'll see some conflicting view points.

It's kinda the same way with OEMs and why you'll see sometimes wide tolerances in clearances and other specs. The ideal case may let the engine live to see 500k miles while the worst case may only last to 300k miles. It doesn't matter in their eyes when the average car gets sent to the junkyard at 250k miles anyway.

Look at the Ca and Mg levels in those two oils. The Driven uses zero Ca and little Mg.... those two elements are detergents that attack the ZDDP. The Rotella is designed to keep an engine clean for thousands of miles.... the Driven is not.

[RDY4WAR]

Thank you, RDY4WAR.

So the break in oil isn’t really about “wearing” the parts to shape, it’s more about adding a protective layer of anti-wear compounds to the parts?

My experience with break-ins is that with Nikasil played cylinders, one revs the engine to the redline three times and then it’s broken in — either the rings seal or don’t seal.

For flat tappet cams we run, the break-in may take longer and anti-wear substances may be more important. (We have to run high seated loads because of the turbo exhaust manifold space constraints.)

Correct. For example, the additive packages of the following in parts per million (ppm)...

Zn = Zinc, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
P = Phosphorus, anti-wear / anti-oxidant
Ca = Calcium, detergent
Mg = Magnesium, detergent
Mo = Molybdenum, friction modifier
B = Boron, extreme pressure

Rotella T1 SAE 30

Zn - 1100
P - 1000
Ca - 2100
Mg - 10
Mo - 60
B - 160

Driven BR30 SAE 30

Zn - 2800
P - 2500
Ca - 350
Mg - 0
Mo - 0
B - 110

The break-in oil is more about what it doesn't contain than what it does.

I prefer a break-in with several heat cycles. Crank it up, go to 2000 rpm for 5 minutes, shut it off, and let it cool all the way down. About 90% of the break-in is already done. The rest if fighting for that last 10% through repeated heat cycles with varying load and rpm. Some people will say they don't do a break-in procedure at all. Others say they just hit the track and romp on it. These people get by just fine. It's not the proper way to do it, and they might see more blow-by or oil consumption throughout the engine's life that they may or may not consider to be "normal." Their engine may only be good for 600 passes now instead of 1000 passes, but it might not matter if they're pulling it to refresh it every 300-500 passes anyway. This can be why you'll see some conflicting view points.

It's kinda the same way with OEMs and why you'll see sometimes wide tolerances in clearances and other specs. The ideal case may let the engine live to see 500k miles while the worst case may only last to 300k miles. It doesn't matter in their eyes when the average car gets sent to the junkyard at 250k miles anyway.

Look at the Ca and Mg levels in those two oils. The Driven uses zero Ca and little Mg.... those two elements are detergents that attack the ZDDP. The Rotella is designed to keep an engine clean for thousands of miles.... the Driven is not.

Absolutely. That applies to regular engine oils as well. You have to maintain a certain ratio of ZDDP to detergent. There's exceptions but they are few. ZDDP is acidic, and the main role of detergents is to neutralize acids. You can see the problem there. Many blame the reduction of ZDDP for the flat tappet cam failures in the late 90s and early 2000s, but don't realize that detergent levels were also increased significantly during that same timeframe and is equally responsible for the failures.