4 stroke killin' 2 stroke idea

[n2omike]

One thing about 2 stroke moto x is that it is hard, thats what made it good. The riders now dont look past 15 ,, Tee ball is free to watch if i want to watch kids,, same thing with whats going on in nascar and NHRA ,, if a 18 yo girl can beat a seasoned vet, something is wrong ,, IMO

MX is so physically demanding that 30 years old is OLD. You're retired by the time you get that age. It literally takes a kid's body to take MX at the top levels. It's a VERY punishing, demanding sport. Whoops are 4 ft tall or more, jumps are RIGHT out of turns and are straight up.

The reason 4 strokes have taken over MX is because they are easier to ride. Less shifting, smoother power delivery, wider power band with more over rev, etc. With 'kill you' jumps right out of corners, your bike had better not run out of gear or spin out on the approach. You had better not run out of gear on those giant whoops, either. It's absolutely insane.

This being said, in a lot of amateur events there are 2-stroke only classes for the fans of these bikes and budget conscious. They are much less expensive to rebuild, service and work on. The big companies are still making brand new 2-stroke bikes. They haven't gone away. They just aren't preferred at the top levels for the above reasons.

2020 2-stroke buyers guide. Lots of European makers, along with KTM and Yamaha still offer current bikes.

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2020-2-str ... ers-guide/

[72bu]

The 2 stroke dominates snowmobile sales by 80% over the 4 stroke sleds.
The advancements made to 2 strokes such as Direct injection and multi staged exhaust valves make the 2 stroke engine very forgivable. Yet the performance is astonishing. A Ski Doo 900 triple 4 stroke produces 90 HP. Where as a Ski Doo 850 twin 2 stroke makes 165 HP at 8000 rpm. The 2 stroke makes for a better handling sled with less weight, since the engine is positioned over the skis.

[brentry]

You want torque
Lower the tranfers
That simple.

[BradH]

MX is so physically demanding that 30 years old is OLD. You're retired by the time you get that age. It literally takes a kid's body to take MX at the top levels...

Makes Zach Osborne winning his first AMA 450 Motocross Championship a couple of weeks ago at the age of 31 even more impressive, IMO.

[levisnteeshirt]

You want torque
Lower the tranfers
That simple.

thats why i suggest a transfer port that also raises with the variable exhaust valve , should just be a linkage concern , with an oring seal

[Bill Chase]

Closed course racing isnt effected by EPA BS

Win sunday, sales increase on monday! And given the fact that most moto stuff has to use a "production" bike, I would argue closed course racing is very much influenced by the epa. The Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha teams do not make money supporting race teams, they make money selling bikes to the average guy, the small town kid, so on and so forth. And the 2 stroke was doomed in the early 70s, it just took a couple decades to finally bury it.

Also, 2 strokes are a hell of a lot cheaper to produce, so if the Government wasn't hammering at the OEM's you would still see them in large scale production motocross bikes, snowmobiles, jet skis, scooters, hell even 2 stroke chain saws are on their way out. Just a matter of time bro.

[levisnteeshirt]

Closed course racing isnt effected by EPA BS

Win sunday, sales increase on monday! And given the fact that most moto stuff has to use a "production" bike, I would argue closed course racing is very much influenced by the epa. The Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha teams do not make money supporting race teams, they make money selling bikes to the average guy, the small town kid, so on and so forth. And the 2 stroke was doomed in the early 70s, it just took a couple decades to finally bury it.

Also, 2 strokes are a hell of a lot cheaper to produce, so if the Government wasn't hammering at the OEM's you would still see them in large scale production motocross bikes, snowmobiles, jet skis, scooters, hell even 2 stroke chain saws are on their way out. Just a matter of time bro.

please explain how 2 strokes were " doomed " ,, the little guy is " doomed " for what it takes to get a 4 stroke on a level with factory guys ,, they took the works bikes out of the picture but the 4 strokes has put the works motors back in it

[408swinger]

All you see out here in Idaho are Orange 2-strokes ! I will take my KTM 300 over a 4 stroke everyday for single track and technical Enduro racing .

N2o had it spot on . Supercross has tight tracks with big whoops and jumps so they can fit in arenas . 4 strokes work well for that due to the wide rev range . And they work well for desert racing due to the gyro effect of the engine .
But 2 strokes are more agile and produce as much torque and more HP per CC. Dirtbike Magazine dynoed a KTM 300 against a YZ 450 years back and were stunned by the results ! Factory backed bikes are a whole other animal ....

[Bill Chase]

Closed course racing isnt effected by EPA BS

Win sunday, sales increase on monday! And given the fact that most moto stuff has to use a "production" bike, I would argue closed course racing is very much influenced by the epa. The Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha teams do not make money supporting race teams, they make money selling bikes to the average guy, the small town kid, so on and so forth. And the 2 stroke was doomed in the early 70s, it just took a couple decades to finally bury it.

Also, 2 strokes are a hell of a lot cheaper to produce, so if the Government wasn't hammering at the OEM's you would still see them in large scale production motocross bikes, snowmobiles, jet skis, scooters, hell even 2 stroke chain saws are on their way out. Just a matter of time bro.

please explain how 2 strokes were " doomed " ,, the little guy is " doomed " for what it takes to get a 4 stroke on a level with factory guys ,, they took the works bikes out of the picture but the 4 strokes has put the works motors back in it

If you look at the first clean air act,and California legislation, the 2 stroke has been pretty much labeled a gross polluter and inefficient from the start, weather it's true or not is irrelevant. The powers that br have had their sites aimed at it since the early 70s.. I am wrong you say? Seen any companies devoting r&d dollars to it.. or the smaller 4 strokes with forced induction? If the 2 stroke had a future there would be mass development from the likes of Yamaha, Honda, Rotax, etc. Its fate was decided decades ago. Hell even weed eaters and small chain saws can be bought 4 stroke now.

[Bill Chase]

I personally love 2 strokes, last one I messed with was 200cc air cooled. Was a conservative 35hp and would run on 87 octane all day long at less than 8500 rpm. Try doing that with a naturally aspirated 200cc 4 stroke!

[Momus]

Supercross and motocross riders at the highest level say that the absolutely instantaneous response of the 4 strokes on jump faces is the key to going fast and to their safety.

Roll off the throttle and then back on with a 2 stroke and the several revolutions before the engine fires properly is key.

https://youtu.be/oSDj_4sZZ9s

[brentry]

mx 2 strokes are no where near what they could be, and 99% shops dont know either. Manufacturers just wont do the r&d. Ktm a little bit.