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camel hump vs vortec

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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canuc
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by canuc »

So is porting allowed ? I agree with whats been said that the vortecs with all their magic won't give you much if any more . But it might be practical to go with whats current and sell the camel humps , get it a little too hot and crack a head you'd be better off looking for a vortec casting .
Kambroziak
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by Kambroziak »

Yes porting is allowed or at least there isn't a rule that says no porting. I'm looking to see if I can use the vortec heads off a 602 crate motor.
canuc
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by canuc »

ok I think I'd build a vortec , probably give you better avg . power , ported camel humps with the torker might have a little more top end but not much with 2 bbl and stock ex. man.
1980RS
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by 1980RS »

I ran 10.90's@120mph with minimal porting and stock size valves with my 062 Vortec heads. Like to see that with a camel hump head.
vortecpro
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by vortecpro »

1980RS wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:18 pm I ran 10.90's@120mph with minimal porting and stock size valves with my 062 Vortec heads. Like to see that with a camel hump head.
What track did you run at? What weight did you run at?
Racing a NA NHRA stocker should be mandatory before any posting.
1980RS
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by 1980RS »

vortecpro wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:07 pm
1980RS wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:18 pm I ran 10.90's@120mph with minimal porting and stock size valves with my 062 Vortec heads. Like to see that with a camel hump head.
What track did you run at? What weight did you run at?
Track is at 898ft. car with the SB was I think around 3250 without me in it, I am 180lbs. Have not weighed it in a while.
canuc
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by canuc »

thats nice hp for mild vortecs
peejay
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by peejay »

I guess the question is if you are racing flow benches or racing cars.

I think one of the worst things is the idea some people keep repeating, that "engines are air pumps". They really aren't, that idea ignores combustion, acceleration, and is only one dimensional, ignoring the dimensions of RPM and throttle position...
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by rebelyell »

And this 350+ has a TWO barrel. How much head does it truly require, and how much in excess of that becomes a drain?
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by rustbucket79 »

falcongeorge wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:14 am
vortecpro wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:46 am Typically what I've seen the best 062/906 with zero shift can flow 240 @ around .500 lift unported and thats rare. Ported with a 1.940 valve I get around 260 CFM @ .550 lift. A 291/462 fuelie flows generally in the high 190s stock round .500 lift. Ported with a 2.02 valve still thick enough to use I get around 262 CFM but @ .650 lift. On the exhaust I get around 210 CFM, which I don't think I've seen on the Vortec head. With the fuelie I can run any piston I want. On welded fuelies (comp eliminator) I've seen much more flow. Super Stock 1.940 Fuelies flow 270 CFM with a 1.940 valve.


Some pictures of the last set of Vortecs I did.



28 inches, sealed 4.030 bore 1.940 valve.

.300 193
.400 234
.500 259

Exhaust was 180 @ .500
At last, someone else posting some hard data instead of mindlessly reguritating crap he read on other forums. And these guys are telling him he should replace his professionally cnc ported camel bumps with BONE STOCK vortecs, not based on the data, which says otherwise, but because "the internet says so".
So sad to see mindless groupthink taking over here, there used to be a preponderance of thinkers here, this place used to be an island in a sea of internet ****, but I have noticed the erosion more and more. Has the real conversation gone over to the Hotpass boards exclusively?
As far as the chambers, angle mill the bumps and run the piston/head tighter, if you are really that worried about it. Tell you what, lets see one of these guys telling the OP that he has to chuck his ported bumps and start over donate the OP some dyno time, stock vortecs and eps against the Brzenenzski camel bumps and torker, optimise timing and jetting, for both combos and have at it. I don't even like the torker II that much, my guess is, it'll be a bloodbath, the vastly superior bump exhaust port will make the EP's torque advantage a wash, and the torker and bumps will walk all over the vortecs and EPS on top. FWIW, I usually see 255/260 from max effort (sleeved head bolt holes,no weld/epoxy) bumps myself, and I only consider myself a decent amateur porter.
Sure, IF you don't have a clue as to how to port heads, bolting on a pair of vortecs will gain over a pair of stock camel bumps. So what? I've ported them both, and I'd take a pair of ported bumps and a single plane over a set of stock Vortecs and an EPS any day of the week. Honestly this isn't even worth arguing about, its stupid to even be discussing this. I feel like I have wandered into the Steves nova forum or the HAMB. WTH has happened to this place?
OP, the stuff these guys are selling is cheaper by the truckload. You have a good set of heads there, and taking into account the two intake choices you presented (which I assume are dictated by the rules you run under?), they are the superior head. This stuff is expensive enough without wasting money on stuff that isn't going to do squat for you. I'm done here, there will be five more pages of bus jumpers spouting "vortecs is better, cause it says so on every forum" crap before this thread dies, thats how the internet works. Save your money and spend it somewhere where it will actually do you some good.
I would love to see the comparison of the same short block with both top ends!
Tom Walker
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by Tom Walker »

Without a doubt I believe an internal combustion piston engine is an air pump, but a failure to consider the physics of thermodynamics, chemistry, wave motion and many other fields of study does over simplify a very complex system.
Without airflow through the engine, all the other related areas of study about engines becomes somewhat a mute point.
Airflow with out proper mangement, can lead to a very inefficient, weak and short lived engine.
It takes a well thought out and engineered system to do what we expect from an engine. An engine is indeed a study in physics on a multi dimensional level. One I find extremely interesting and fascinating.
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by PRH »

With an equivalent amount of rework to both sets of heads, and running a cam big enough to exploit it....... I think the Torker II would win over a Performer EPS.

In one of the circle track classes in this area, when Vortecs were pretty new....... with the basic rules being 358” max, 1.94/1.50 valves, no porting, 10:1, Stock iron 2bbl intake, 4412 carb, headers, flat tappet cam......... the Vortecs were clear winners over the double bump heads.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: camel hump vs vortec

Post by maxracesoftware »

SBC various Vortec Dyno Tests and Flow Sheets
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55602
MaxRace Software
PipeMax and ET_Analyst for DragRacers
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