Speed-Talk is running on www.Speed-Talk.com

IMPORTANT: Update your bookmarks to https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/
(Right-click the URL and select "Bookmark this link")

Cleveland heads

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

1972ho
Expert
Expert
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:52 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by 1972ho »

I’ve never really ran it hopped up but it runs 10:70 123.74 in normal bracket race mode I’ve only had 2 heads up in 10 years.I just want some to know you don’t have to go to extreme to get a cleveland to run far under the index.I believe that’s why it’s not a lot of cleveland stocker racer because they might believe something that may not be true and thousands of chevy stocker small blocks.
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

Thanks for sharing. I want to do a pump gas oc head setup. I dont think 550 or 600 is out of reach. I did a 9.3:1 oc that hit 468@ 6000 owner didn’t want to rev past 6000 i had stan weiss map the power curve at it went 503@6700. Technically. Lol
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

Our own little 3000lb mustang runs 6.85 in 1/8 at 99-100. 357 cubes c4 and shift at 7300. I did the above seat trick to these heads also but added porting also. These heads flowed 368@.600 lift. With a .657 flat tappet and 850 carb on top strip dommy intake. If my bottom end was a little beefier we would cam it more and spin harder. Likely wake right up
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

fordified wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:24 am
Steve.k wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:15 am Are you guys doing anything special to blocks? What kind od hp you seeing? Must be close to 650-700
Aftermarket block and good steel crank. No billets.
So windsor block.
treyrags
Pro
Pro
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by treyrags »

fordified wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 am Here's a set of heads that we've been working on. They flow almost 370 at .800.

I've included a picture of the ports compared to a yates heads with a lot of work done. The Yates heads have smaller ports and flow 390 CFM at .800 with a 2.150 valve
What do you mean by "smaller"? Smaller than what and where? The port opening? Pinch? Turn? Bowl? The average csa is what really matters.
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

treyrags wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:33 am
fordified wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 am Here's a set of heads that we've been working on. They flow almost 370 at .800.

I've included a picture of the ports compared to a yates heads with a lot of work done. The Yates heads have smaller ports and flow 390 CFM at .800 with a 2.150 valve
What do you mean by "smaller"? Smaller than what and where? The port opening? Pinch? Turn? Bowl? The average csa is what really matters.
Treyrags you do alot of Clevelands do you guys fill or mostly just port?
treyrags
Pro
Pro
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by treyrags »

Steve.k wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:55 am
treyrags wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:33 am
fordified wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:29 am Here's a set of heads that we've been working on. They flow almost 370 at .800.

I've included a picture of the ports compared to a yates heads with a lot of work done. The Yates heads have smaller ports and flow 390 CFM at .800 with a 2.150 valve
What do you mean by "smaller"? Smaller than what and where? The port opening? Pinch? Turn? Bowl? The average csa is what really matters.
Treyrags you do alot of Clevelands do you guys fill or mostly just port?


Haven't messed with Cleveland heads in many years, but both fill and port. These images are from a 311 inch Boss we ran in comp way back. Peak ~ 9500, shift ~ 9800.
ImageImage
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

treyrags wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:38 am
Steve.k wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:55 am
treyrags wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:33 am
What do you mean by "smaller"? Smaller than what and where? The port opening? Pinch? Turn? Bowl? The average csa is what really matters.
Treyrags you do alot of Clevelands do you guys fill or mostly just port?


Haven't messed with Cleveland heads in many years, but both fill and port. These images are from a 311 inch Boss we ran in comp way back. Peak ~ 9500, shift ~ 9800.
ImageImage
Ahh yes. Straighten shot on a3.what about standard iron? And is there a specific minimum square inch you like to be.
treyrags
Pro
Pro
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by treyrags »

Steve there really is no set area for any head. The area is dictated in each situation by the target peak HP rpm and engine displacement. These heads would be a turd if they were going on the same size engine set up to peak at 8000.
BobbyB
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:35 pm
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by BobbyB »

treyrags wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:21 pm Steve there really is no set area for any head. The area is dictated in each situation by the target peak HP rpm and engine displacement. These heads would be a turd if they were going on the same size engine set up to peak at 8000.
What would you recommend for a street/strip 393 Cleveland with 4v closed chamber heads shifting at 6500 rpm? How do you know how big to make the port area? Thanks.
treyrags
Pro
Pro
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Central Texas

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by treyrags »

I would suggest learning the basics by reading publications like "practical engine airflow". Once you get comfortable with the fundamentals then I would suggest buying and learning how to use Larry Meaux's PipeMax program. Larry has dedicated most of his life to induction and exhaust testing and is referenced many times in the above mentioned book. If you don't feel comfortable with doing the porting yourself then I would suggest someone like Chad who does it professionally
cgarb
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1849
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by cgarb »

Steve.k wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:01 am 8BFF3EA3-8346-4CC3-A931-1C2177DA4C32.png
Here is stock E chamber. That’s interesting. Im not sure what class original poster is in.I guess it depends where he wants to go. A quick port job will pick him up a fair bit.
If someone wouldn't mind sharing some info here, I'm thinking about doing seats like this. These look like the copper style seats, I was just going to try installing iron. I have the heads in my possession now and after seeing the factory valve job with that undercut under the 45, I understand now why this is so important. What ID/OD and depth seat inserts would I want to install?
User avatar
Kazoom
Pro
Pro
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:28 am
Location: Cal AB CND

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Kazoom »

Kenny M wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:43 pm plate.pngLike Steve K said.. They really don't need much. I just built a 383 with very mild head clean up work and with 12to1 and a cam that is 260 at .050 it make 625HP. 585 with the stock intake manifold. These heads flowed 325 non touched port with bowl clean up.

I did test a set of the MPG brass EX. tong's a while back and saw nothing , on a 525HP 347.

I will be on the Dyno on the 10th of this month with a 347 Boss 302 . these heads flowed amazing they must of started as a very good core with just a bowl clean up and a good valve job nice .080 wide bottom cut they flowed 337 airspeed was 260. being it is a smaller engine, i installed the aluminum Parker port stuffers, i feel that these are the best.. It did loose some air flow at .500 it went from 300 to 290 and at .650 from 337 to 320 but air speed picked up to 300 ft/sec.. With some PR pinch work and cutting down the port plate on the PR side floor, i did get the flow back and kept the air speed at 300. My port stuffer ended up looking alot like Steves picture of the epoxyed port.
your int port opening looks correct...

installing the "parker" port stuffer as they come are WAY to thick and can hurt top end perf on 350+ci, they convert the intake port to a small ci restrictor port for 300ci eng's, parkers funnelweb is a port COPY of old SVO 300ci restrictor port intake... https://www.corral.net/threads/351-clev ... st-8907905

imo the PME T/A port fillers are BETTER to start with which i understand are a closer copy to the original 1969 Ford indy intake port inserts which when finished/contoured should have slightly angled port openings that are 2-1/4" high, like T/A head... https://www.corral.net/threads/351-clev ... st-8907958
!Grab em by the p*ssy!... !TRUMP FOR LIFE! ...!make America Grab again!
Steve.k
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am
Location:

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by Steve.k »

cgarb wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:07 pm
Steve.k wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:01 am 8BFF3EA3-8346-4CC3-A931-1C2177DA4C32.png
Here is stock E chamber. That’s interesting. Im not sure what class original poster is in.I guess it depends where he wants to go. A quick port job will pick him up a fair bit.
If someone wouldn't mind sharing some info here, I'm thinking about doing seats like this. These look like the copper style seats, I was just going to try installing iron. I have the heads in my possession now and after seeing the factory valve job with that undercut under the 45, I understand now why this is so important. What ID/OD and depth seat inserts would I want to install?
That is the million dollar question right there. 🤪
cgarb
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1849
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:50 am
Location: Maryland

Re: Cleveland heads

Post by cgarb »

Steve.k wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:03 am
cgarb wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:07 pm
Steve.k wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:01 am 8BFF3EA3-8346-4CC3-A931-1C2177DA4C32.png
Here is stock E chamber. That’s interesting. Im not sure what class original poster is in.I guess it depends where he wants to go. A quick port job will pick him up a fair bit.
If someone wouldn't mind sharing some info here, I'm thinking about doing seats like this. These look like the copper style seats, I was just going to try installing iron. I have the heads in my possession now and after seeing the factory valve job with that undercut under the 45, I understand now why this is so important. What ID/OD and depth seat inserts would I want to install?
That is the million dollar question right there. 🤪
That's fine, I'll figure it out. Thanks for the pointer though.
Post Reply