Valve spring locators/cups (ID&OD) for double valve springs

[Eagle1903]

Dear Friends,

I have read almost all the valve spring locator threads but I am not sure if I understand correct.

My topic question is not for a specific engine application but rather for correctly locating double valve springs both an alloy and cast iron heads.

1- With double springs, shall I try to aim to locate just the inner springs with ID type locators or both the inner springs and outer springs ? In other words, for double springs locating just the inner spring will be enough ?

2- In case if the inner valve spring is located properly with an ID type locator but the valve spring pocket is much larger than the OD of the outer spring, shall I try to locate the outer spring with a Cup type locator as well ?

3- is it correct to accept that there should NOT be a snug fit between the ID type locator’s OD and inner valve spring’s ID or OD cup locator’s ID and outer valve spring’s OD BUT there should always be clearance of 0.005”-0.010” ( not more than 0.010”) between the spring and any kind of locator ? And is it correct to accept same kind of clearance goes for the valve spring retainer’s inner locator steps for inner and outer springs ? Meaning that, there will never be snug fit situation but always some clearance.

4- If I were to machine any kind of the locator from scratch, what would be ideal materials to choose and the required hardness ?

Regards,
Kerem

[Caprimaniac]

Hello, Kerem.
Asked almaot the same q couple years back.

1: Most people seem to like inner locators. But outers work too.... Cups might have an advantage keeping spring oilsoaked. However- at least all head I have used- there are valve pockets themselves have some septh, and will hold oil. Unless you shim the spring above that level...

2: no
3. some clearance, yes. But snug fit has always worked for me...

4: I never found any test- results with both inner & outer locator in compariaon to outer or inner only. So, I’d love to try....

[Eagle1903]

Hello, Kerem.
Asked almaot the same q couple years back.

1: Most people seem to like inner locators. But outers work too.... Cups might have an advantage keeping spring oilsoaked. However- at least all head I have used- there are valve pockets themselves have some septh, and will hold oil. Unless you shim the spring above that level...

2: no
3. some clearance, yes. But snug fit has always worked for me...

4: I never found any test- results with both inner & outer locator in compariaon to outer or inner only. So, I’d love to try....

Hi Caprimaniac,

I understand your comments. Thank you.

And it seems that there is basically only two type of locators being ID and OD anyway in the market. So depending on the situation one has to be chosen and as you mentioned inner locator seem more common.

But for the snug fit I have some doubts since the valve spring will always try to rotate unlike the valves. Because valve rotation in the retainer can be prevented if wanted as far as I understand if fully clenching keepers used/preferred.

However, if the spring/s is snug fitted to the retainer or to the bottom locators and if the valves are free to rotate ( not clenched at all ) then the whole assembly will somehow try to rotate itself on the cylinder head spring pocket either with the help of the valve rotation or just the spring itself. And I imagine we don’t want that friction on the spring pocket.
I may be fully wrong on my thought but I just wanted to mention.

And by the way, I do not know how to choose a free locks/keepers, semi or fully locking/clenching locks to have the desired amount of valve rotation. This is another topic which I am planning to post as a new topic to understand this issue.

After some googling I have noticed that the ID and OD locators are usually made of different steels ( both case hardened ) but I do not know why.

I imagine, you have a 2.0 lt Pinto Sohc engine in your car ( if you still have the same engine ) which I also deal a lot with these engines. And I like them a lot.