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Methanol Injection

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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c1500sbc
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Methanol Injection

Post by c1500sbc »

Anyone used methanol injection and street driven, semi - daily driven vehicle? This is going back to my previous post about a 355 I just built that i'm not entirely happy with the power of. The current compression is 10.3 ish :1 but if I add a small turbo kit/supercharger kit, I can obviously add some power to it. I have just never used it, and not sure of the reliability. I'm also not sure of how that affects the engines ability to handle "calculated compression?"

I could also switch to some 72 or 76cc heads and just drop the compression down to a safer level for boost.
stealth
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by stealth »

Is E85 available in your area?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Do you have "Winter Formula" (Blue) Windshield Washer fluid in your area... (The cheap simple BLUE winter stuff that does not contain detergent or glycol)

It is simply distilled water and about 25% methanol.
Product MSDS doc lists whats in it.

If it feels greasy or leaves a film on a surface it has glycol.
If it foams right up when shaken it contains detergents.
Racer71
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by Racer71 »

I have several customers that use it in daily driver VW’s as well as a few other makes. It works fine theirs turn on at higher boost levels to make up for pump gas irregularities. Just keep an eye on the level if you do a good bit of spirited driving
rustbucket79
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by rustbucket79 »

We’ve set up a handful of roots combos with Snow brand meth injection systems with minor to major improvements. We use their Boost Juice rather than WW fluid.

The meth you inject is part of the total air fuel mixture so take that into consideration.
Smaller superchargers that are spun to close their terminal speed benefit more from meth than big ones loafing along.
You’ll probably need a smaller nozzle than you think, ramping it in at low boost for the vaporization cooling effect works well.

I think you can make your compression work with careful ignition timing and low boost.
mt-engines
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by mt-engines »

I've used a few different methanol injection kits. mainly snow performance.

In my opinion without intake air temp and/or a knock sensor you are just guessing.

With 10.5:1 compression and premium pump gas I have had luck running boost levels as high as 25lbs without water or meth injection. the key is low intake air temps.

as mentioned by someone else, e85 is a great fuel to use if you have access to it. then you have no need to need to inject anything else.
c1500sbc
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by c1500sbc »

I do have access to e85 in my area. Fairly easily actually, but i've heard its hard to tune with? That the fuel is just too inconsistent? Any opinions on that?
mt-engines
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by mt-engines »

c1500sbc wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:15 pm I do have access to e85 in my area. Fairly easily actually, but i've heard its hard to tune with? That the fuel is just too inconsistent? Any opinions on that?
Its no harder to tune than any other fuel. Just don't get cocky with the timing. otherwise its a fairly forgiving fuel. i run it in my own Racecars
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Service station pump E85 is not held to the same blend formula as a racing fuel sourced E85.

The pump station E85 is intended for "E85 Flex Fuel" vehicles that automatically adjust the EFI to the stuff in the tank... Not going to happen with a E85 carb.
The E85 stuff in the pump can vary widely.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Swapping in a $100 set of 350 dished pistons is easy straight forward for a guy that assembles his own stuff.
mt-engines
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by mt-engines »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:31 am Service station pump E85 is not held to the same blend formula as a racing fuel sourced E85.

The pump station E85 is intended for "E85 Flex Fuel" vehicles that automatically adjust the EFI to the stuff in the tank... Not going to happen with a E85 carb.
The E85 stuff in the pump can vary widely.
So racing E85 is only meant for racing... Sucks for a guy that wants to daily drive his car.

There is no problem with pump E85, its not even hard to check yourself. Car guys have facebook pages that post the results from stations.
Since pump 85 is so bad i better call all the guys i've built engines for E85 and warn them it doesnt work.These guys and myself have ran hundreds of gallons or more a season through their engines, some burn that much in a night of street racing. Some of these guys are making close to 1600hp without any issues. 11:1 compression turbo small blocks, turbo ls 11:1, turbo big blocks running 11:1 also.

"Swapping in a $100 set of 350 dished pistons is easy straight forward for a guy that assembles his own stuff."
But i get it, arbitrarily replace his pistons with some cheap cast pistons will save him the troubles of the horribly time consuming task of swapping a carb and swapping fuel.

Its not 1975 anymore, we have pump fuel just over a dollar a gallon that is 100-108 alcohol octane.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Your friends must have very big gas tanks to burn "hundreds of gallons" a night.
mt-engines
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by mt-engines »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:16 am Your friends must have very big gas tanks to burn "hundreds of gallons" a night.
Yes they are too stupid to refill their 15 gallon fuel cells multiple times a night, so they installed 100 gallon tanks. #-o :roll:

I'm not sure if you are aware of this. But there are these buildings on almost every highway exit and every few city blocks that are called gas stations. They sell fuel that you can pump into your car. You can even refill your car as many times as you want in a 24hour period. Around here you can get E85 in damn near ever city.

This summer I burned through 50 gallons in one night tuning a turbo sbc on the street. and was only out 3 hours. I know guys that burn regular pump gas and burn 50 -60 gallons in a night street racing. Most of these guys drive their cars from wherever, could be 80 miles from the meeting point to their home, and still race.

Around here they don't race for 10 hours in 1 spot, they run a few cars and on to the next spot, usually meet and choose where and whos next at a gas station.

heck, i've burned 20 gallons of E85 just at the race track in 1 day in my car, pump E85 and a Carb . I dont have a 20 gallon cell, I bring extra fuel.
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

"I burn extra fuel" I'll say...

your mileage may vary.....

Lets keep it real.. The OP is looking for a basic solution to add about 100 ft/lbs and about 100- 150 hp to what he's got there.
I have run a good few 350's with just 350 cast pistons, low compression and low ↓ <10 psi blower boost.
Easy to do with a 142-144 weiand or the lil cool Edelbrock 122HH sbc blower kit.
The power and torque the OP is looking for, on good pump gas without breaking a sweat.

If you prefer a blow thru centrifical the SBC TorqStorm blower gets you their easily on a very mild tune.
(non intercooled pump gas)

If course adding Water/Methanol injection allows you to really turn up the wick, if you want...
F-BIRD'88
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Re: Methanol Injection

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

What specific 72-76 cc chamber heads do you have there to work with? These can be modified by hand to open up the chamber volume a bit more if you are willing...
80+/- ish CC. This is another path.
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