Engine Tuning - In Cylinder Pressure - Supercharged Engine

[nitro2]

A number of years ago we hooked up with Ray Price Racing (Nitro Harley) and offered them something different, our in cylinder pressure tuning equipment heavily discounted and full data analysis support. In turn they set records and won championships.

That was the only time we ever did that. We are looking to do that again, but with 5 or 10 candidates this time, each in a different type of racing, so that candidates are not competing against each other.

I don't want to discuss business in this thread as this is Engine Tech, so any business discussions can be directed to a private message/email/phone etc.

In this tech thread I can provide graphs of in-cylinder pressure and answer some questions about in-cylinder pressure. Port pressures too. I would also be interested in seeing/discussing any specific engines that anyone wants to discuss.

Clint

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I am interested in graphing the propagation and reflection of a wave along the length of the duct.

Have you seen any way to do that?

I am thinking of writing a software to try to collect data from several points along the duct then fill-in the spaces in between.

[David Redszus]

Hi Clint,
I would be most appreciative of exhaust pressure vs crank angle, for a few NA and turbo engines.

Intake pressure vs crank angle would be very helpful to understand the induction process as
would motored cylinder pressure curves.

As always, we would need stroke and rod lengths with rpms.

I also need some help to get my TFX system updated and functional, for which I'll contact you offline.

[learner1]

This is an amazing opportunity...i'm jealous

[GARY C]

A number of years ago we hooked up with Ray Price Racing (Nitro Harley) and offered them something different, our in cylinder pressure tuning equipment heavily discounted and full data analysis support. In turn they set records and won championships.

That was the only time we ever did that. We are looking to do that again, but with 5 or 10 candidates this time, each in a different type of racing, so that candidates are not competing against each other.

I don't want to discuss business in this thread as this is Engine Tech, so any business discussions can be directed to a private message/email/phone etc.

In this tech thread I can provide graphs of in-cylinder pressure and answer some questions about in-cylinder pressure. Port pressures too. I would also be interested in seeing/discussing any specific engines that anyone wants to discuss.

Clint

I don't know what your looking for but this nut head clearly has the money, connections, chassis dyno, several cars and a track proven records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmZcDq8T1A

[nitro2]

I am interested in graphing the propagation and reflection of a wave along the length of the duct.

Have you seen any way to do that?

I am thinking of writing a software to try to collect data from several points along the duct then fill-in the spaces in between.

Jon do you mean in a running engine or are you referring to a bench test setting ?

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

Jon do you mean in a running engine or are you referring to a bench test setting ?

I have a single cylinder Rotax 650 on a dyno.
I would like to do it for this engine.
It does not need to be done in real time.
It would be fine if to do as a post process.

The aim is to disintegrate the measured pressures and isolate each wave, then graph each one in a different color.
The final result would look like several waves traveling left and right as if there were 100 probes.
The aim is to make it more obvious how each wave contributes to the integrated values.

These days, it might be easiest to do with machine learning and skip all the physics work.

[nitro2]

Jon do you mean in a running engine or are you referring to a bench test setting ?

I have a single cylinder Rotax 650 on a dyno.
I would like to do it for this engine.
It does not need to be done in real time.
It would be fine if to do as a post process.

The aim is to disintegrate the measured pressures and isolate each wave, then graph each one in a different color.
The final result would look like several waves traveling left and right as if there were 100 probes.
The aim is to make it more obvious how each wave contributes to the integrated values.

These days, it might be easiest to do with machine learning and skip all the physics work.

The cost of having a large number of sensors would be prohibitive so if I understand what you are asking then you would have a small number of sensors and do several tests with the sensor's location moved for each test ? We haven't done this, but it could be done with the equipment, hand picked data from each file could be dumped to a file, then all of the hand picked data read back in and plotted. A little software customization would be needed but definitely doable.

[nitro2]

I don't know what your looking for but this nut head clearly has the money, connections, chassis dyno, several cars and a track proven records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmZcDq8T1A

Never heard of him but by the looks of it he sure is a busy boy lol. Not too sure how one would contact him directly.

[nitro2]

Hi Clint,
I would be most appreciative of exhaust pressure vs crank angle, for a few NA and turbo engines.

Intake pressure vs crank angle would be very helpful to understand the induction process as
would motored cylinder pressure curves.

As always, we would need stroke and rod lengths with rpms.

I also need some help to get my TFX system updated and functional, for which I'll contact you offline.

Sounds good. I'll try to get some graphs posted on here over the next couple days.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

The cost of having a large number of sensors would be prohibitive so if I understand what you are asking then you would have a small number of sensors and do several tests with the sensor's location moved for each test ? We haven't done this, but it could be done with the equipment, hand picked data from each file could be dumped to a file, then all of the hand picked data read back in and plotted. A little software customization would be needed but definitely doable.

I am thinking of something more tricky.
From 3 or 4 sensors, decompose the integrated pressures to find the individual waves.

I am thinking, create a single wave and its reflections by a pressure burst like a starter pistol.
From this you can interpolate the speed of propagation and the decay of magnitude.

Then do the same thing with 2 pressure bursts separated by a short time.
Try to decompose them.

Then with 3 bursts.
Try to decompose them.

By then, you would probably have it.

Some simulations software do this, so it would be nice if we could use that to validate simulations.

[GARY C]

I don't know what your looking for but this nut head clearly has the money, connections, chassis dyno, several cars and a track proven records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmZcDq8T1A

Never heard of him but by the looks of it he sure is a busy boy lol. Not too sure how one would contact him directly.

https://www.texas-speed.com/ provides his engines so that would be the best path and maybe another candidate for your test.

https://truestreetmotorsports.com/ may be another candidate, I provide the VP fuel for their Turbo Coyote Fox Body as well as several Turbo and Nitrous cars for the TEX275 radial drag cars associated with them, they have a chassis dyno as well.
Here is Clint's/Truestreet motor sports, old nitrous limited set up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llc0hcnDE2c
Clint/Truestreet 318 Turbo Coyote dyno video, New Set up. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=501829890477445
Truestreets FB video page... https://www.facebook.com/TrueStreetMoto ... e_internal
Danial Large BBC Nitrous set up, Partners with True Street on test and tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEF8TKW1yhM
TEX275 cars run 1/8th mile in the 4.70 et range.

[GARY C]

I don't know what your looking for but this nut head clearly has the money, connections, chassis dyno, several cars and a track proven records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmZcDq8T1A

Never heard of him but by the looks of it he sure is a busy boy lol. Not too sure how one would contact him directly.

A better option than Cletus McFarland may be his tuner Jeremy, owner of Fasterproms http://fasterproms.net/
Worlds first 2015 C7 Z06 in the 9's! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOUKEL8HZNM

[Rick!]

The cost of having a large number of sensors would be prohibitive so if I understand what you are asking then you would have a small number of sensors and do several tests with the sensor's location moved for each test ? We haven't done this, but it could be done with the equipment, hand picked data from each file could be dumped to a file, then all of the hand picked data read back in and plotted. A little software customization would be needed but definitely doable.

I am thinking of something more tricky.
From 3 or 4 sensors, decompose the integrated pressures to find the individual waves.

I am thinking, create a single wave and its reflections by a pressure burst like a starter pistol.
From this you can interpolate the speed of propagation and the decay of magnitude.

Then do the same thing with 2 pressure bursts separated by a short time.
Try to decompose them.

Then with 3 bursts.
Try to decompose them.

By then, you would probably have it.

Some simulations software do this, so it would be nice if we could use that to validate simulations.

What about a "chopper wheel" similar to an old Rotax rotary valve to supply the pulses? Start up the flowbench, dial in a rotary valve speed and create pressure pulses - or at least somewhat unsteady flow...

[RW TECH]

If you have data on a naturally aspirated engine at WOT that shows the cylinder at lower than ambient pressure immediately before IVO, I would be interested in seeing that.

Everything I've worked with had cylinders at or slightly above ambient pressures all time in the power range at WOT. The only time I saw negative was with the throttles closed (idle) or partially closed.