Future of head porting

[bob460]

Here is what I know, aside all the normal life expenses. Mortgage, electric, etc. I pay $1896 a month for BCBS for health insurance.

If I can pay all my bills, and put money in savings, it's a successful small business, no matter what criteria you post.

PS, a year at Kansas University is $26,000. Just did it for a kid.

AND the smartest thing anyone could do is move out of California. My in-laws are there and I would give two cents to live in that nonsense.

So your paying $437 a week just on health insurance..........WTF

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Here is what I know, aside all the normal life expenses. Mortgage, electric, etc. I pay $1896 a month for BCBS for health insurance.

If I can pay all my bills, and put money in savings, it's a successful small business, no matter what criteria you post.

PS, a year at Kansas University is $26,000. Just did it for a kid.

AND the smartest thing anyone could do is move out of California. My in-laws are there and I would give two cents to live in that nonsense.

So your paying $437 a week just on health insurance..........WTF

Pretty fricken dumb isn't it. We as a family used under $600 last year in medical. I'm currently in the process of switching to self insured through the bank and then major medical through BCBS.

[fordified]

So all you young people, move to California if you want to be highly educated.. LMFAO

Meanwhile major companies are headed towards Texas.

My hillbilly ass isn't smart enough for this thread. peace!

Not what I said^^^

The companies that are moving to TX are typically the parts that have to cut costs to remain in business.
They are finding that their best employees are not following them to TX. If they are not doing cutting edge work, that may be OK for them.
The cutting edge jobs in the USA are in the Bay Area, LA and Orange county CA.

Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, Brown, Yale, Columbia, Princeton, Penn, Hopkins, Duke and a bunch of top 25 universities in between ain't in California. Boston-Cambridge and the route 128 corridor to Research Triangle Park is the home of jobs on the cutting-edge. Texas is on its way to becoming very high-tech and a monster economy.

I know many people who are filthy rich. They have more money than they'll ever be able to spend. Almost every one of them started out self-employed or became self-employed before owning a business. They all have something else in common. The bigger they became the more and harder they worked. I know one guy in his 80's and at least a dozen others in their 70's that go to work every day and work hard. They could have retired 30 years ago.

Self-employment brings freedom and opportunity. Working for someone else doesn't. I don't care how automated our society becomes, there will always be a need for self-employed people who work hard and bring value to their customers.

Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for millions of others.

[digger]

Yeah lots of narrow minded views in this thread

[hoodeng]

Fordified's quote on self employment is right on the money, that's one point in a nutshell.

I have been following this post for a while now and there have been many angles to come from with this topic.

My two cents worth would be that after your have been in business for a while and identified your strengths and weaknesses,, cut the weaknesses loose as soon as you can see there is no money nor credibility in doing that kind of work. If that type of work can be encountered in your main stream work and is unavoidable have the reputable providers of that service available to you. If the job goes pear shaped due to an existing condition that has presented itself at a time into the job, don't try and dig yourself out of a hole by trying to retrieve the job, consult a reputable provider of that type of repair,if they say fix, get them to fix it, if they say junk, ring the customer asap and get him standing next to the guy that has given their job the kiss of death. And no, you are not going to provide your work for nothing up to this point. The customer might bag you to others, but all he can say against you is that you charged for what you did, the fault was not yours, and you investigated as soon as a problem became evident and reported back immediately.

Some guys like to take on anything that crosses their counter, they are either very experienced in all types of service, or killing a lot of time they can not charge for researching or developing something that can not support the investment. These guys are the ones that wonder just why they can't crack it in the till considering the time invested.

Get to know your strengths, you may find you will be singling down your service provision to just a few brand names or even one , If their products are on the wane as far as continuity of work is concerned broaden your base only to encompass similar work that can fall in with what your doing successfully , if this can not be done you are dealing with a hobby not a business.
That is fine if it scratches an itch for you, but, if you have to provide for your family, fund future investment for your retirement, fully fund the maintenance of your business [and cover cost of expansion if that is your path] , and live comfortably, your business had better be cracking along at a comfortable pace.

Cheers.

[BCjohnny]

I've always been self-employed, from the day I left school, almost thirty-nine years ago

I had a place at the local 'red brick' and could have gone on to make a lot of money in law ..... but I didn't fancy it, not cynical enough

Everything I have in life, which for some might not be a lot, is paid for and has been with my two hands and that rather vacant space between my ears

I wouldn't change a thing, in fact after fifteen years kicking back, I'm gearing back up again and the bigger shop is getting put together over the next few months ..... and porting will be part of it

I'm probably mad and the only thing that phases me now is that I'm not as indestructible as when younger ...... for the first time I'm considering how health may impact work

Odds were I was lucky not to snuff it eight years ago ...... who put that cliff there? ...... but if nothing else that gives you an added sense of priority

It's easy to offer tons of advice, so I'll limit it to a couple :


The main secret is to know when to turn down work ...... that is the hardest lesson, especially when you're starting and have bigger bills to pay

And off the back of that the second is never let money become your god ...... almost everyone I know, who does, ends up bitter


All those that do work for yourselves, you have my admiration because, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it .......

My tuppence worth

[dannobee]

There are more than two sides to this coin.

Getting back to the OP's question, if I were to start all over (30+ years in automotive, completed my MBA in that time, over three decades of racing from drag racing, circle track, SCCA, yadda yadda yadda), I'd look at each decision with a more jaundiced eye. The first step I'd take now is a basic, back of the napkin SWOT analysis (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats). I'm talking a viable, growing business, not a part-time endeavor that you take on while being employed full-time in another industry.

Lump the strengths and weaknesses together. Strengths, very specialized knowledge that usually takes years to learn can create barriers to entry for those just starting. If you have made a name for yourself and have a good customer base, we'll call that a strength. Weaknesses, initial capital outlay relatively high for an individual (extensive set of hand tools, flow bench, valve and seat grinding equipment, CNC machines, surface grinders, etc). Often all knowledge centers on one or two key individuals, so production output is hampered by the amount of work that can be produced by hand by those key individuals. Very little room to circumvent the high manual labor (although things like CNC can help). With high manual labor expenses comes limited top line growth, where we can't physically put out enough product to keep increasing revenue, year over year, unless we higher other highly skilled individuals (who can then use the knowledge gained by becoming your competition).

Opportunities and Threats. Here's where the bad news comes. Long term opportunities are dwindling. Fewer opportunities for internal combustion engine development as consumers switch to electric cars and factory produced ICE's last far longer. With longer lasting engines comes engines that are no longer routinely disassembled (i.e., "while it's apart, might as well port the heads." And the OEM's are producing better and better cylinder heads which limit any big gains we can achieve). Opportunities are narrowing, with our customer base being more the racing and vintage hot rods/street rod base than the every day street car owner who wants a little more power. And how many times can we port the same cylinder heads while still adding value to the customer? Our customer base is older and dying off. Demographically, who are your customers? Do you see very many younger customers?

Threats are coming from many directions, including Chinese CNC ported heads (good or bad, they're cheap and suffice for many applications). And is there enough profit not just to pay the bills today, but to expand the business by investing in things that can make your life easier and produce a higher quality product, like a (newer, better) SERDI/Rottler or a Haas CNC machine? Another threat is the digitization of ports, where practically all of your combined knowledge can be stolen in a few minutes and effectively sold for a fraction of your development costs and used by your competition to undercut your prices.

Like I said, that's a back of the napkin quick analysis of the industry. Feel free to add/subtract/modify/correct this analysis.

[BILL-C]

From where I stand, it looks like the race engine building and head porting trade is going strong. There is more head porting going on now than ever. Almost all of the negatives that people have listed also apply to most other industrial jobs. How many other current jobs are totally safe from becoming obsolete or will never require workers to change and adapt as new technologies develop? Why would anyone not expect head porting trade to change also? Evolve or go extinct is my opinion.

[JC565Ford]

What I'm reading is to be successful, the person must have people doing all the work for them.

PS. Aerospace work, HTC is in Ohio.

Right, labor will continue to be automated and moved offshore to low cost resources.
It is a big mistake for a young person to choose a career that involves labor that can be automated or off-shored.

There is a reason that the high paying companies in aerospace and advanced automotive technology are located in expensive areas in California...that is where the highly educated and skilled employees they need want to live.

So all you young people, move to California if you want to be highly educated.. LMFAO

Meanwhile major companies are headed towards Texas.

My hillbilly ass isn't smart enough for this thread. peace!

My best friends daughter left So Cal to go to TCU for a degree in accounting 6 years ago. Now two years out of college she stayed in Texas and she’s making $110k per year at one of the Big Three accounting firms, and her rent is $1,350 per month.

There’s a reason TESLA, Oracle and others are leaving California. These idiots will continue to strangle the Golden Goose until it is flat out dead.

[GARY C]

If I were asked to suggest a plan for entry into the head porting trade, (thankfully, no one has asked), I would
recommend the following free advice.

Take a course in CAD including 3D and solid body modeling.

Find some good ports and make castings from them that can be drawn in CAD.

Find a source that can run CFD analysis for various port, seat and cylinder designs.

The above will provide an insight as to how head flow actually works apart from the racing folklore.

Once an understanding of local fluid dynamics has been achieved, draw a CAD file
for CNC machining.

Then you can pick up a die grinder for finishing the ports.

Valve seat designs are an important aspect of a winning porting job.

Why do you think it is that people with these skills loose EMC events to guys that know little to nothing about these technologies and the ones that have used them openly discredit them?

They do? Who are they?

That’s an incomplete argument because you haven’t seen a Hendricks, Ilmor, Roush, etc show up to an event like that. The closes was when Kaase showed up with the Mod motor and destroyed the field.

. Ford had several variations of these four-valve heads, with these being the Ford GTstyle castings. Kaase actually acquired this set from Roush Yates as takeoffs from a Daytona Prototype endurance-racing engine. The heads were already CNC ported, and Kaase actually acquired two sets, giving him a set of heads to experiment with. As he tells us, "I worked on one of the sets, putting a little bit bigger intake valve in it. That is the set of heads I ended up running, but I really didn't see much improvement. To be honest, I did hardly any headwork, almost nothing. I did put the bigger valves in, but the other heads made every bit as much power."

That engine used an OEM block, head casting, and a modified OEM manifold, which were all designed with the aforementioned tools David mentioned. Same goes with the modern Ls and Hemi engines, which were the foundation for those other program. You should see the the modeling Chrysler did on that combustion chamber for the new hemi, BES and other teams surely benefited from that whether they realize that or not.

Find me an aftermarket piston company and rod company who isn’t using CAD and FEA analysis?

Billy Godbold and the like aren’t designing camshafts on paper and slide rules.

Etc.

Why do you think it is that people with these skills loose EMC events to guys that know little to nothing about these technologies and the ones that have used them openly discredit them?

The same reason Bob Glidden won 10 Pro Stock championships.

His last championship was 1989, 32 years ago. None of what David was talking about existed in a meaningful way then and motorsports still had room for the Bob Gliddens. He would struggle to go it alone in the last 10-15 years and without using the tools mentioned.

Hoffman, I guess you haven't been following EMC for the past 2 decades.

[GARY C]

Why do you think it is that people with these skills loose EMC events to guys that know little to nothing about these technologies and the ones that have used them openly discredit them?

The people with those skills and tools develop the OEM parts that make late model engines vastly superior.

Many of the modern OEM parts are so well developed that the performance after market can't improve on them without changing the criteria by which they are judged.

"All" OEM parts are improved by the aftermarket which shows they are not "superior", so I will ask again, How do people without those skill best those who think they are superior?
There is an actual and obvious answer to this question.
It seems you guys would be better off learning why instead of just assuming you are "superior"... Just Saying!

[hoodeng]

Why do you think it is that people with these skills loose EMC events to guys that know little to nothing about these technologies and the ones that have used them openly discredit them?

The people with those skills and tools develop the OEM parts that make late model engines vastly superior.

Many of the modern OEM parts are so well developed that the performance after market can't improve on them without changing the criteria by which they are judged.

"All" OEM parts are improved by the aftermarket which shows they are not "superior", so I will ask again, How do people without those skill best those who think they are superior?
There is an actual and obvious answer to this question.
It seems you guys would be better off learning why instead of just assuming you are "superior"... Just Saying!

Hi Gary, not sure what to read in what you have written? are you saying the OEM is as good as it gets, or are you saying some people are overselling what they can achieve with OEM to start with?

There was a book written in 1944 at the peak of WW2 by a guy called W.J.King, it is called "The Unwritten Laws Of Engineering" basically what it is for was the heard of graduate engineers that were coming into mainstream wartime production [who had an unrealistic gauge of their merit], it was also written as a reminder to those in design and development that things had to be done expediently.. The expedience part was for obvious reasons in that era, what King was reminding them of was that they could develop the hell out of something and make it perfect,, the reality was that as soon as it was practical it had to go into production asap to aid the effort. Improvements would come later.Some failed even with development, but they had a go anyway.

Since then we have operated under the same principals,,in that, a manufacturer has to get kit off the drawing board and into production, it has to meet specification for the item being produced or imminently released, improvements come later.

My reason for saying this is that [for cylinder heads in this instance] there will always be someone that will squeeze out more from something that has been made by a manufacturer for a given combination, they may be tweaking seemingly minor areas but get a measurable improvement over even the performance model from a manufacturer,, was the manufacturer misleading in saying his was the best of the bunch? no, he had to get his kit into production and on the showroom floor.

The only place that really amazes me is Formula 1, for every rule that has been written someone will kick a goal from an impossible position on the field. Yes, spastic money goes into what they do, is it the car? the engine? the driver? there are a few winning that know the formula for today, tomorrow another team will pull something out of the bag that will stun the others, that's the story of this sphere of sport.[even though some think this sport is boring as bat shit, i love it!].

Years back i got to see some of the support a company called 'Ricardo PLC' were giving in induction design,,,stunning, beyond my comprehension but it sowed seeds of thought of what to look at, a D Morgan seminar sailed close to some of the theory as well.

We can all learn all the time,, unless we already think we know enough.

Cheers.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

"All" OEM parts are improved by the aftermarket which shows they are not "superior", so I will ask again, How do people without those skill best those who think they are superior?
There is an actual and obvious answer to this question.
It seems you guys would be better off learning why instead of just assuming you are "superior"... Just Saying!

I worked in the after market designing parts, for a company that was there pre and post CAD and CAE have you?
The parts made after CAD and CAE became involved are much better.

Generally the after market has to change the criteria for what good is to make an improvement.
That criteria will typically allow for higher RPM, higher cost, higher emissions, less smoothness.

Another way that you can look at it is to compare the performance, including emissions, fuel economy, longevity, smoothness, reliability of the engines developed before CAD and CAE vs after CAD and CAE. The modern engines are much better, thanks to CAD and CAE.

You are deluding yourself if you think that less information and less precision is somehow an advantage.

If you would do the work to understand how they work, I am sure that you would agree.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

My best friends daughter left So Cal to go to TCU for a degree in accounting 6 years ago. Now two years out of college she stayed in Texas and she’s making $110k per year at one of the Big Three accounting firms, and her rent is $1,350 per month.

There’s a reason TESLA, Oracle and others are leaving California. These idiots will continue to strangle the Golden Goose until it is flat out dead.

There is a reason rent and real estate are multiples of TX, that is where people want to live.

I understand that it is difficult for someone just getting started to buy in CA, but it is often the least expensive place to live.
Here's how.
We lived in our last house for about 10 years.
If you take the profit from that sale and subtract the payments, we lived there for free with profit left over.

[hoodeng]

The Australian Ford BA Falcon [2002-2016] was powered by an Australian designed Turbo charged OHC6 engine called the Barra. In factory trim this made in the 320-420hp range and were known as a pretty good street car...With development this is what they could do,not bad for a 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPpzdjT9P28

Side story, one of the guys instrumental in this engines development for Ford had access to 'Ricardo PLC' as a tool for induction design, he was a manager for a race team i was involved with, it was his conversations that got me looking into this area with interest. He told me of some of the HP figures they were achieving in house that were staggering.

Cheers.