Future of head porting

[998gp]

Hi I’m new the forum....I worked in the automotive industry (production and racing) and I’m curious what some of the guys on this forum think about the future of head porting.

The reason why I ask is because I noticed at most events/conferences etc. the majority of the head porting people are older and I assume there are some younger guys into it but I’m wondering is the knowledge being passed on? Are newer people coming into the industry? In what direction do you think the industry is going?

Just curious what you guys think.

Thanks

P

[rebelrouser]

I think for people to make money at it is will take marketing. Everybody seems to be stuck on CNC porting, and nothing wrong with the process, but whose work will they tell the CNC machine to copy?
And not all CNC programs are optimized as well.
Had a guy that I freshened his engine, had a set of INDY SR BBM heads that had been CNC ported, he was not happy with the way it ran last season. So I cleaned up the heads and put them on the bench, cam was .700 lift on the intake. At .600 lift they started losing flow at 28 inches, cranked up the bench to 35 inches they really started losing flow. When they were CNC ported close to the short side you could see and feel a slight ridge where I guess the cutter could not reach. Checked them with a velocity probe and they were around 400 fps at 28 inches. did just a little work removing the ridge, lowered the floor just a little and widened the edges of the port at the short side, got the velocity down, they stopped backing up and when we dynoed the engine, it made 50 horse more than before. Kind of surprised me, because the flow did not go up that much, it just made the port quieter.
So while the basic CNC program was great, it took a little effort to knock off the rough edges so too speak. I don't call myself a great head porter, but no more than I know with my homemade bench, I fixed his issue. If nobody gets porting work done, how will the porters still going get the experience to learn their trade? And as you said we are getting old, I am 65.

[David Redszus]

CNC is a computer controlled manufacturing process. It is not a port design process.

Port designs can be evaluated using CFD tools, if done correctly.
But first, a working knowledge of fluid dynamics is required.

[jed]

Having worked the last 15 years with younger 18 to 40 machinest/engine builders most don't want to pay the dues it takes
to become knowledgable/proficient at the craft. Most of us started out working a full time job to pay the bills then worked
4/5 or more hours at night to learn the craft and spent the weekends at the race track, Drag strip or circle track ECT. I spent my money not on drugs, alachol or a new car but on tapes, that's right tapes books, seminars or any way I could get reliable
information.
As far as passing on information you picked the right sight for information. Start at the beginning of Speed Talk and read everything there is about cylinder head porting and put it into practice. You have information here that money can't buy.
Get a used flow bench or build a cheep one and go to work. Stay with Speed Talk be respectful and ask questions.
IMO if you are serious In a couple of years you can have as much work as you want.
I would offer you good luck but ultimately it up to you.

[The Iron Icon]

26 and doing porting and flow bench work, as for stuff being passed down I have not gotten that much passed down but the little that has I'm thankful for, but I am writing everything down I find in engine work and porting for my son for when he is older and if he would like to do anything like I do he has the start I wish I had.

[mag2555]

I’am 66 and I had to get into porting and learn and research about how to properly do what’s needed because for my brand of favorite motor there where no aftermarket heads for too long of a time and the best factory high performance heads of the time where still no match for even a BBC oval port head !

The big sad question I have ( and that I don’t know if I really want the answer to ) is how much longer do you think racing internal combustion engines will be allowed to be around for, as in being allowed by the one world order of government that’s gaining on us?

[bob460]

I’am 66 and I had to get into porting and learn and research about how to properly do what’s needed because for my brand of favorite motor there where no aftermarket heads for too long of a time and the best factory high performance heads of the time where still no match for even a BBC oval port head !

The big sad question I have ( and that I don’t know if I really want the answer to ) is how much longer do you think racing internal combustion engines will be allowed to be around for, as in being allowed by the one world order of government that’s gaining on us?

Elon Musk is the one who could wipe out the performance industry..........all the investing he is doing, he could just buy out the performance industry one by one.......and then there is no performace parts.

It's scary, but that's the hard truth.

So we just got to get out there and have our racing fun while we can with the combustion engine.

[steve cowan]

Seems everyone wants to buy now and go fast,there is so much available if you can afford it
I bought a flow bench about 3-4 years ago and it is a very steep learning curve but very satisfying as well,I recently bought a valve grinding machine and stones and started doing my own valve jobs,for me its a hobby to compliment my drag racing but I can't see at my level of experience and equipment it being a viable job earning good money,and I for one can say there is not much glamour grinding cylinder heads and intake manifolds especially cast iron stuff.

[JoePorting]

I think the future of head porting comes down to CAD (Computer Aided Design) software. First you get the basics down with general porting techniques and a flow bench, then you move to using that knowledge to design ports with CAD software. The CAD ports have the benefit of having perfect radius's, walls, and transitional surfaces. The result are super flow numbers from day one. Then try and use the grinder to get a few more flow numbers and then redesign those improvements in your CAD file for even better numbers. See the R&D video from Blueprint Engines and note the plastic flow boxes. Once you get your final port design in, then you're ready to incorporate that into a cylinder head.

The above is for port design work. There will also always be a demand for regular clean up porting where you take a given head and try and improve the flow through general accepted porting techniques.

[digger]

are you meaning porting an existing casting from an OE or aftermarket? as opposed to development of ports for new bespoke head designs?

the former not much will change as you need:
- someone to do a port to then reproduce in CNC;
- alternatively people building cad files from OE heads/then doing CFD and developing CNC from that but i doubt many will as better to do development of new design if you have skills and volume to warrant the time and cost.
- one off will be hand ported cant see there ever being a cost effective way.
- don't see cost effective 3d printed fully function heads ever

[PSA]

I believe humans will raise to the task as always, that's how we get more intelligent for each generation.
Improved OEM will perhaps leave less low hanging fruit on the tree, but people don't have to start from scratch with a 50's design either.
CAD and CFD is easy enough to pick up as knowledge, the problem might be the price of turning that into CNC work for a startup business.
Then again used machines are out there, and if you don't have to spend hours and hours to read and go through trial and error in hunt for information, you can spend more time being productive to pay off the machines.
And, how long will we have a need for this work until it's mostly electric, 50 years?

[gunt]

look at 4 piston racing there young enough guys considering and making it pay , developing ports and then cnc their work ,
but long term , sorry it will be gone , look at the billet blocks and some billet heads , now look at 3d printing they will print from scratch a99.9% perfect parts

[compguy]

I have a set of CNC ported heads from a very well know porter. The flow figures are impressive, but comparing them port to port, on both intake and exhaust I was surprised. The best exhaust ports I put at 100%, but others were just over 95% of the best ports. Intakes slightly better, worse ports were 97.9% of the best (100%) ports.
So as said in posts ^^^^^, its just a copy or copies of someone's hand ported work, and if some of their port work is off port to port, you wont get all the ports flowing the same.
I am sending these for slight mods to get the bad ports up near the good ports flow so at least they are within 1 % of each other.
So you'll never replace experienced head ports...even with CNC stuff like these.

[The Iron Icon]

I’am 66 and I had to get into porting and learn and research about how to properly do what’s needed because for my brand of favorite motor there where no aftermarket heads for too long of a time and the best factory high performance heads of the time where still no match for even a BBC oval port head !

The big sad question I have ( and that I don’t know if I really want the answer to ) is how much longer do you think racing internal combustion engines will be allowed to be around for, as in being allowed by the one world order of government that’s gaining on us?

Elon Musk is the one who could wipe out the performance industry..........all the investing he is doing, he could just buy out the performance industry one by one.......and then there is no performace parts.

It's scary, but that's the hard truth.

So we just got to get out there and have our racing fun while we can with the combustion engine.

Don't think musk is going to go that route, but also remember the automobile replaced the horse and buggy, we still race horses. I think automotive machining is going to become a somewhat rare specialty in the next 30 years. The one company I think that could breathe more life into the ice is Mazda.

[rebelrouser]

Elon Musk is the one who could wipe out the performance industry..........all the investing he is doing, he could just buy out the performance industry one by one.......and then there is no performace parts.

It's scary, but that's the hard truth.

So we just got to get out there and have our racing fun while we can with the combustion engine.

Don't think musk is going to go that route, but also remember the automobile replaced the horse and buggy, we still race horses. I think automotive machining is going to become a somewhat rare specialty in the next 30 years. The one company I think that could breathe more life into the ice is Mazda.

Hot Rodders will be building better battery packs, and winding special armatures, designing battery management software, As you say people still make money raising horses, and people still love to own and ride them. So it will be with the internal combustion engine. Electric cars are already faster, look at the new electric Mustang, but the sound of a good exhaust note is something people will still want to enjoy.

https://www.motor1.com/news/442400/elec ... rter-mile/