Killer BEE valve seats.

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Didn’t you used to have a VGS-20?

Did you use the 3D tooling with that machine?
If so, did you use similar cutting speeds to what you’re using now?

Yes, I had a green machine for 10 years and then thought I wanted a newer one so sold it and got a white machine. The green machine was a much better machine. I used 3D tooling with both.

No way can you cut a set on a VGS over 200 rpm. Most seats were cut at 100-150 RPM.

[PRH]

Had you started using those Killer Bee seats when you still had the VGS-20?

I have a VGS-20 I bought new in 1996(white).
I got into the 3D tooling in about 2005.

With that tooling, I run the cutting speeds way slower than you did.

With a std SBI seat and the old VSC tooling, I’ll be up around 150 for an exhaust sized seat.

Intake sized stuff is way way lower......... and as a result, takes forever if starting with a blank seat.
Not so bad when recutting an existing valve job.

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Had you started using those Killer Bee seats when you still had the VGS-20?

I have a VGS-20 I bought new in 1996(white).
I got into the 3D tooling in about 2005.

With that tooling, I run the cutting speeds way slower than you did.

With a std SBI seat and the old VSC tooling, I’ll be up around 150 for an exhaust sized seat.

Intake sized stuff is way way lower......... and as a result, takes forever if starting with a blank seat.
Not so bad when recutting an existing valve job.

Yes, been using the Killer Bee and Durabond seats forever.

Check this out. Powerdered metal seat on a knee mill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELQW8x2NhoU

[PRH]

I watched a couple of your vids. There was one where you were cutting a seat on the white VGS-20.

Do you have any pics of the head mounting fixture?
It looks totally different than what mine has.

Also, it looked you had a last word indicator touching the head intake surface.
What were you looking for there?

[SpeierRacingHeads]

I watched a couple of your vids. There was one where you were cutting a seat on the white VGS-20.

Do you have any pics of the head mounting fixture?
It looks totally different than what mine has.

Also, it looked you had a last word indicator touching the head intake surface.
What were you looking for there?

Here is a video. Sunnen used a fixture called the Addco. This machine had one. It used wedges to level the head. It was a PIA. I mounted my CP on it and later bought a Morris and that is what I sold it with.

I was checking the the head to make sure it was ridgid and not moving while cutting the seat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7AvS0NFynU&t=21s

[Mummert]

I have a green and white vgs-20. Green one is for one off and the white is for production. I've used VGS 20's since 1995 when I got in the business at the tail end of high school. Typically I bring the speed up upon touch down and then roll off pm as the cutter starts to settle in. Helps from getting the ugly screech if you drop on a little aggressive. Depending upon diameter and material cut rpm is between 75-150 rpm for the majority of the cut, beryllium can get under 50rpm at the end of the cut til' I get bored watching it, I always use light air to keep cutter from running over chips, finish is better cutter lasts longer. Depending on the condition of the cutter, which means when the angles steeper of the cutter start to go away I do a slight lift at the end of the cut a time or two to get rid of deflection and it will cut the steeper angles a bit more till I can see the deflection in the depth gauge get to minimum. At that point its ready for a sharpen. My cutters are Sunnen many customs some catalogue. Rake was more pronounced back in the day some of my latest of the last few years have come with very little. Sunnen cutters are double rake, the sharpeners are set up for vertical and horizontal rake. 1* horizontal and 0-1* vertical pretty common

Powdered metal seats are prone to flaking or chipping near the top angle in high abuse scenarios. Powdered metal seats can be made up of whatever mix they cam dream up so they are not all equal. Suzuki and yamaha used killer bee style seats for years, the Salmon colored hue is present on new heads or fresh seat cuts.

[PRH]

That Addco fixture looks like it’s more suited towards production type work where you’re going to be doing a bunch of the same type of head one after the other.

It’s pretty rare I do two sets of the same type of head back to back, and I’m often doing operations to both the chamber side and the top side of the head(cut for spring cups, seals, etc)....... without removing it from the machine.
It’s nice being able to easily flip the head over.

Mine has the standard head “clamps” that grab the ends of the head.
I also have the VGS-20890 OHC head frame.

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Powdered metal seats are prone to flaking or chipping near the top angle in high abuse scenarios. Powdered metal seats can be made up of whatever mix they cam dream up so they are not all equal. Suzuki and yamaha used killer bee style seats for years, the Salmon colored hue is present on new heads or fresh seat cuts.

Killer Bee seats are what I use in every current Comp and Super Stock head. For a reason.

Never have I seen a 30 year old Dart head with a chipped or flaking seat, all powerdered metal.

[Mummert]

That Addco fixture looks like it’s more suited towards production type work where you’re going to be doing a bunch of the same type of head one after the other.

It’s pretty rare I do two sets of the same type of head back to back, and I’m often doing operations to both the chamber side and the top side of the head(cut for spring cups, seals, etc)....... without removing it from the machine.
It’s nice being able to easily flip the head over.

Mine has the standard head “clamps” that grab the ends of the head.
I also have the VGS-20890 OHC head frame.

We make billet plates for production stuff

[Mummert]

Powdered metal seats are prone to flaking or chipping near the top angle in high abuse scenarios. Powdered metal seats can be made up of whatever mix they cam dream up so they are not all equal. Suzuki and yamaha used killer bee style seats for years, the Salmon colored hue is present on new heads or fresh seat cuts.

Killer Bee seats are what I use in every current Comp and Super Stock head. For a reason.

Never have I seen a 30 year old Dart head with a chipped or flaking seat, all powerdered metal.

The idea of the seats is fine, the consistency needs work, the GT-40 in the early 90's had the same seat in the exhaust, sometimes they cut decent sometimes not. Vortec HD truck engine have them.

I just keep thinking that one day they make them consistent and they'll cut nice and be cheap and the world will be round. I see the same thing on the ATVs. Were I really see it is welding on them, some weld nice and will shrink up quick and fall out. Some of those things spit pop and blow up all over the place.