Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

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zums
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by zums »

Going to have to retract my offer at this point I've seen I've got private messages but can't open them right now ,had a house fire last night and too much going on to deal with this sorry for the hijack
Tom
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

You can see a trend of all the sbc engine cars of the period (and beyond) that actually did run a 11 sec ET ALL weight less than 3400 lbs. Most are less than #3400 w/driver.

All will have big gears (4.56 up) with a 4 speed trans.
So start by taking 400 lbs out of that car.
We would avoid that car for a sbc S/S build back in the day.
They are just too heavy, Its pure physics.

CamKings engine combo looks very good for a dual purpose S/S combo. IN a 3400# w/driver car with 4.56-4.88's It will GLH and drive well. The engine likes to rev.

Mickey Thompson has a nice street friendly Street Strip full tread DOT tire that is just right for this car. P255-60 R-15 (15x27x10) #3452. Just right with era Lakewood Traction Bars and 4.88's. Get a driveshaft safely loop, a SEMA aproved steel f.lywheel and steel "scatter shield" bell housing.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

Here my 12.68 @ 106.2 combination @ high altitude, moving to Texas soon which I will be looking for high 11s, and of course I will follow up.

3970 pounds 1979 long bed 1/2 ton
Two piece drive shaft
Very heavy brakes
Driven in the summer, including today
445 HP 400 TQ 327 + .030 331 20.000 plus miles
480 lift Isky 240 @ .050 solid lifter cam, 1.5 ratio rockers
Ported 461 heads 2.02/1.60 valves
11.1 comp never seen anything other than 91 octane pump gas
Performer RPM intake with 750 DP, 1 inch open spacer
Locked HEI dist

Point is you don't need to spend money or use fancy parts to run 11s in your Camaro.

Crankshaft HP to run 106.2 @ 3970 364 observed HP
Crankshaft HP to run 113-114 which I believe it will run in sea level conditions, 441-453 observed HP
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Do you think that truck will pick up 82 more horsepower in Texas air? Good lil 327 build. You forget the lil B&M blower. Then it could run high 11's in any air.

Forget to ask the OP ers elevation/altitude..

Your observed HP (in the truck in real use) is rear wheel horsepower
Not Crankshaft hp. The trans, rear axle ,tires and engine driven accessories absorb horsepower. It is not corrected to sea level power . It is what is actually getting to the ground on that day, under that days conditions.. Good build.

My math says based on the 106.2 mph (3970#) says that it required a dyno tested corrected to sea level engine horsepower of 440 hp, As you can see its very close to your 327's engine dyno test... It always is. I use a high and low fudge factor to acount for chassis efficientcy of the car and weather conditions to get there.

Again nice build.. You do nice work.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88 on Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:22 pm Do you think that truck will pick up 82 more horsepower in Texas air? Good lil 327 build. You forget the lil B&M blower. Then it could run high 11's in any air.

Forget to ask the OP ers elevation/altitude..

Thanks, people who have never raced @ Denver will never understand, the other day a guy called me that had just moved from Orange County Ca to Parker Colorado, He took his 555 BBC 55 or 57 Chevy out to the track for the first time and ran 11.70 and was SHOCKED :shock: , he asked what he could do to get it faster, I laughed and said NOTHING, you got a street car with a lot of power robbers, the car ran a 10.50 in California. Consider this: I will go from a 23.70 baro in Colorado to a 30.30 baro in Texas =D> do I think theres 82 HP there-your dam right theres more than 82 HP. The extra power in Texas will take my slow 1.82 60s that takes hundreds of feet for my 327 to come on to a wheels up launch that screams through low gear.



I have run a B&M blower before: 12.5 comp 355, angle plug 492s, with a Rons injector on Alky.




"Your observed HP (in the truck in real use) is rear wheel horsepower"

I find it interesting you post that, seeing my 327 made 329 measured or in the room HP 300 TQ before the correction @ 6400 feet elevation, DA was probably 9000 plus. Denvers drag strip sits @ 5800 feet, and has considerably better conditions than my shop where the dyno sits, you might want to rethink this.
Last edited by vortecpro on Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by bob460 »

vortecpro wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:05 pm Here my 12.68 @ 106.2 combination @ high altitude, moving to Texas soon which I will be looking for high 11s, and of course I will follow up.

3970 pounds 1979 long bed 1/2 ton
Two piece drive shaft
Very heavy brakes
Driven in the summer, including today
445 HP 400 TQ 327 + .030 331 20.000 plus miles
480 lift Isky 240 @ .050 solid lifter cam, 1.5 ratio rockers
Ported 461 heads 2.02/1.60 valves
11.1 comp never seen anything other than 91 octane pump gas
Performer RPM intake with 750 DP, 1 inch open spacer
Locked HEI dist

Point is you don't need to spend money or use fancy parts to run 11s in your Camaro.

Crankshaft HP to run 106.2 @ 3970 364 observed HP
Crankshaft HP to run 113-114 which I believe it will run in sea level conditions, 441-453 observed HP
Man i love my moroso power speed calculator, its right on the money............just modified my moroso calculator to read up to 2000hp.

What you think 3500lb @2000hp.........6.95 @201mph......does it seem close?
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

The power speed calculator works great for 10 sec or under NA cars, always matches my dyno data.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Whats to re consider? The track has better air than your shop does. A lot better.. Physics does not change.
If the density altitude was 9000 ft for the correction factor that sae correction factor will not be that accurate.
It has a limited range where it is accurate. The SAE papers clearly state this..
Its a rare rare day that any track in Texas sees Sea level 60°f dry air.. Still nice build thou.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

If I have 445 corrected dyno HP @ 29.92 baro 60 degrees dry air
And have 329 observed dyno HP before the correction, measured HP @ 6400 feet alt, 9000 DA


How I'am I making 364 rear wheel HP with a automatic super heavy brakes and a two piece drive shaft, pushing the air with frontal area of a truck in 5800 feet alt , 8000 DA, do you see my point?

Houston regularly sees a 30.3 baro and NEGATIVE 500-1000 below sea level. The NHRA altitude correction factor is .9405 for Denver, I've never raced in under 8000 DA Denver.

Just to be clear I don't use SAE, I use STP.
Last edited by vortecpro on Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by rebelrouser »

I am building an engine right now for a street rod with the same basic goal as you want.
Now first lets just talk like I would to one of my customers. If you want a muscle car engine streetable, about ONE HP per cubic inch is average, decent idle and compression to run pump gas.
I am not Grumpy Jenkins so most of my mild race engines make 1.5 to 1.6 HP per cubic inch. That is just how it is at my shop. Make fun if you want, I am being honest.

So to make your car run in the 11.00 zone, I would say you need around 450 HP'

350 HP per cubic inch = 1.28
383 HP per cubic inch = 1.17

So a 383 is much easier to make your goal. My customer brought me a 350 4 bolt main block we got a flat top 383 kit, compression came in around 9.75 to one. Edelbrock E-Tec cylinder heads. Cam is 112 center line installed at 107, 242 duration, .594 hydraulic roller. I might have picked a little different cam, Edelbrock dual plane intake and 800 AVS carb, but he got a good deal on these parts, it is what it is.

Performance trends says it should make around 475 HP and 490 ft lbs and have 11 inches of vacuum, a rough idle but not that bad. Soon as he gets the pulleys and belt drive will put it on the dyno.

If you are wanting to use OEM Iron heads, I just don't think you will find a set that flows enough. If you want to port them maybe, if you want to spend the money. If you want the stock look , paint the heads, few people will know the difference.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

See how it does in Texas.. Thats where the rubber meets the road. A long way from 12.68 to a 11 sec ET slip, for that truck.. Good luck. The brakes don't matter as long as they are not dragging..

Your 327 installed in this guys 77 camaro with 4 speed and 3.73 gears will run 12.3 @ 110 in decent typical track air.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88 on Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

12.68 X .9405 = 11.92 Good discussion


Ck this out, we took our street Camaro down to Houston and ran in a 615 DA 30.0 baro. On total traction control to get it out of the hole, zero tuning, it still picked up 12 MPH over Colorado runs. BTW these were 1.48 60s :lol:
https://youtu.be/E1Wz5qZDPAk
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

It could may just crack in the 11's in this Camaro on a very good track day with 4.88-5.13 gears and someone who can row a boat.
(11.95 ish @ 110.5 mph.) He'd need help.

I say mid low 12's best in this car as discribed, as he plans to use it.

Put this Camaro on a serious diet and gear it correctly and the prospects get much better Needs to lose 350-400 LBS.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88 on Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by vortecpro »

I will make sure your the first to see the video of my truck running @ Houston, hopefully I can get it done.
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Re: Building an 11 second 70's nostalgic SBC

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

vortecpro wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:34 pm I will make sure your the first to see the video of my truck running @ Houston, hopefully I can get it done.
If there is anybody that is capable, it is you.
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