Issue trying to set total timing

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travis
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Issue trying to set total timing

Post by travis »

Still working on the tune on the 351w in one of my trucks, and ran into something kind of weird.

I tempy’d up an advance limiter in the HEI. I have a Innova 3568a timing light that the tach is supposed to read up to 9999 rpms, but it stops reading around 2100-2200 rpms...repeatedly. Any idea why? On my other trucks’ 351w with the stock DSII ignition, it reads any rpms.

Distributor is a almost brand new DUI HEI, new plugs (RV10YC’s), and almost new Ford Motorsports 9mm spiral core wires.
PRH
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by PRH »

This won’t answer your question....... but I prefer to use timing lights without any knobs, buttons, read outs.

Make a line on the damper at 35*, then use that relative to the zero and the scale on the timing mark to set it where you want it.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by BillK »

I agree with PRH. I have seen at least three times where dial back lights were not correct. I stick with my 30 year old Su chrome gun. No frills. always works.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by Tuner »

Flip the pickup over 180 deg on the plug wire. Try it on the cylinder opposite # 1 ... # 6 A bad wire or fouled plug can cause a timing light with RPM and advance calculation to get confused.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

That timing light is trash. It is not accurate.
The other Innova light with just the advance dial no led display works very well. No bells and whistles is best.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Or just make a balancer timing tapeb .360 degrees /10 is the length away from TDC for 36° timing mark.
360/12 is the 30° timing mark spot.
Wrap the masking tape around the balancer Mark the overlapping points at the tdc mark.
Remove, lay out and mark the 1/10 th point and the 1/12 th length point. Reinstall the masking tape and mark the balancer with paint.


If the balancer TDC timing mark is not accurate
Neither will the total timing marks be.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by Bill Chase »

BillK wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:30 pm I agree with PRH. I have seen at least three times where dial back lights were not correct. I stick with my 30 year old Su chrome gun. No frills. always works.
Went through this last fall, a simple analog timing light, old sears penske, any of the old sun stuff etc works great, seems to have no trouble with an msd box either
travis
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by travis »

I have a degreed balancer, and TDC was verified when I built it, so it was easy enough to set the total timing with my 20+ year old conventional timing light and the trucks tach. It’s just annoying when you buy something with good reviews, and it ends up being crap. I shouldn’t be surprised I guess as the first one I bought was bad right out of the box.

Funny thing is, after farting with it earlier today and giving up, I tried it again later and it worked fine #-o
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

I tried that timing light you have. Returned it for the cheaper simple analog light with simple advance dial.
Works great.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by Tuner »

travis wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:12 pm I have a degreed balancer, and TDC was verified when I built it, so it was easy enough to set the total timing with my 20+ year old conventional timing light and the trucks tach. It’s just annoying when you buy something with good reviews, and it ends up being crap. I shouldn’t be surprised I guess as the first one I bought was bad right out of the box.

Funny thing is, after farting with it earlier today and giving up, I tried it again later and it worked fine #-o
Moving the wires will change how they couple with EMF inductance/capacitance, so sometimes just moving the pickup location will help. Did you turn the pickup over 180 deg. on the wire? Another deal is the ferrite in each jaw of the inductive clamp has to make good contact when the clamp is on the wire.
travis
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by travis »

I tried it both ways the first time around, even though I initially hooked it up correctly as the clamp is very clearly marked. I dunno...it read fine to a point and then stopped multiple times
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by rebelrouser »

Your timing light might be trying to tell you that you have bad plug wires. I have one of the old analog chrome timing lights that I use on MSD and engines with degreed balancers, and a snap-on advance type light, which works great. If I have an issue like you describe, first thing to do is hook the light to another wire just to see if the problem repeats. Many times defective wires cause the timing lights to act funny. The next issue I see a lot is a cracked magnet in the pickup of the light.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by PRH »

20-something years ago I was the clown calling the MSD tech line and not wanting to believe what they were telling me.
I had a motor on the dyno with a crank trigger ignition, and using my Snap On dial back timing light(the kind with a knob), which up to that point had never seemed to do anything odd, the timing would gradually, and repeatedly retard...... a lot.
The strobe was nice and steady, the timing wasn’t erratic at all, it just gradually retarded as the rpm went up.
The motor didn’t exhibit any signs of the timing moving, but I wanted to see if I could get a handle on what was happening. So I called MSD.
I explained everything, the guy on the other end of the phone said “it’s the light”.
I told him it’s never bothered before, and asked if the air gap was too wide if it could do anything like that....... he said he didn’t think so, and was pretty sure it was just the light.

I got off the phone, one of the other guys asked what they said, I told him...... he went to the back room and came back with an old Craftsman non-dial back light.
Problem solved.

I probably haven’t used that Snap On light 5 times since then........ and then only on non-multi spark ignitions.

Once you know it can lie to you........ how do you trust it?
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by swampbuggy »

Whenever simplicity can be employed it’s always the best way to go I don’t care what you’re dealing with. Mark H.
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Re: Issue trying to set total timing

Post by Dan Timberlake »

Yeah, I don't see how any timing light can ignore or make sense of what goes on inside the plug lead run by a multi spark ignition.
But I'll be 71 year old tomorrow.
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