Indy car engine difference…

[CamKing]

Again, you have no idea, and you seem to ignore the facts.

Anyone that knows anything about engines, knows a 22% increase in CID doesn't make up for a 35% reduction in RPM.
Anyone knows that the stock block V6 needed an increase in boost to be competitive. CART made sure it never was competitive.
CART called themselves IndyCar, because that made them more marketable. They fought IRL in court, to keep them from using the name Indy Car.
Major CART sponsors required the teams to earmark half their Budget for the Indy 500, because the Indy 500 was worth as much to the sponsors, as all the CART races combined. I have seen a couple of the contracts, to prove it.
That's how you justify making it double points, and a month long event.

Oh, and if you're going to throw names around, try not to throw out hacks, like Dennis Firestone, and Pete Halsmer. Both are well known alsoran's.
Danny was a hell of a driver. My dad sold him the dyno facility in Long beach, when we quit building engines.

In the words of the great AJ Foyt: "I didn't make Indy. Indy made me. I owe everything to the Indy 500"

[Walter R. Malik]

I did some Buick Indy Engine work for General Motors through the company I was working at ... got a few cams from your dad, Mike; for some development on the valve train.
If only Ongais wouldn't have hit the wall on the pace lap that year; we referred to him as the "Flyin' Hawaiian". He raced about everything.

[frnkeore]

Again, you have no idea, and you seem to ignore the facts.

Anyone that knows anything about engines, knows a 22% increase in CID doesn't make up for a 35% reduction in RPM.

I ignore no facts, I've posted facts, your posting mostly opinions. The Buick is actually a moot point. It was a failure and a waste of millions of dollars, for those that pursued it. The most successful stock blocks, were Fords. The factory 255 pushrod and the Gurney/Westlake Ford. Second, in both cases at Indy.

Was there a rule, limiting the RPM of the Buick? The Buick, couldn't take the boost, just like the Offy, couldn't.

So your saying that if you have the talent to make the 500 field, w/o buying it, that your a hack? Like I said, Firestone was one of my driving instructors and he ran FF at that time so, I didn't know him well but, Pete on the other hand was a friend and a very talented guy, as well as a CalPoly graduate in engineering. He lead the '83 Cleveland race for 15 laps, before Al Sr passed him and stayed 2nd, ahead of Teo Fabi. He was 11th in the championship that year, beating out the likes of Mears, Johncock, both Bettenhausen's and even Danny. He didn't run for a top team, either but, Arciero Racing, a Anaheim building contractor and long time car owner in road racing.

Pete, went on to Fords Trans Am program and later the Mazda Trans Am program.

Oh, one more thing.........If Indy is what it's all about, why do they have any other races?

[jsgarage]

We got what we asked for with Indy, I guess. In Europe, there are entire classes of race cars in which a single spec engine is mandated (the Gibson/Zytec V-8 for their version of LMP2). Is that better? At least we got two completely different engines (for a while with the Indy-Porsche, we had 3).

[Walter R. Malik]

Rather than simply leasing engines from the manufacturers having controlled horsepower, they should permit the teams to buy those engines and test & run their own internals. If they make more power then the manufacturers involved would be forced to do some more R&D to keep up their leasing programs.

[CamKing]

The Buick, couldn't take the boost, just like the Offy, couldn't.

Thanks for proving how clueless you are.
The Offy could run with 110" of boost( and qualified on 20% Nitro). No Cosworth ever built, could make the power the Offy could.
If they didn't limit the boost, and fuel, the Cosworth would have never won a race.

Your lack of engine knowledge is astounding.

[CamKing]

Rather than simply leasing engines from the manufacturers having controlled horsepower, they should permit the teams to buy those engines and test & run their own internals. If they make more power then the manufacturers involved would be forced to do some more R&D to keep up their leasing programs.

Each "Authorized" engine manufacturer is under contract to spend X-million dollars a year, to promote the series. That's well more then the Series sponsor spends. That gives them a lot of power. They don't want engine competition. They want the engines to all be even, and more importantly, reliable. For them, their money is much better spent on commercials, then engine development. For a car manufacturer sponsoring the series, the advantage of working for a HP advantage, isn't worth the risk of a decrease in reliability.

[PackardV8]

The Offy could run with 110" of boost( and qualified on 20% Nitro). No Cosworth ever built, could make the power the Offy could.
If they didn't limit the boost, and fuel, the Cosworth would have never won a race.

For true, Mike. In order for Ford, Cosworth, Buick, et al, competitive with the turbocharged Offenhauser, it was necessary to castrate the Offy. The genius of Harry Miller and the talent of Leo Goosen and Fred Offenhauser . . . .

FWIW, during the same time period, 1980s, the turbo-four BMW was so powerful and so dominant, F1 limited fuel consumption to make Ferrari, Renault, et al competitive. A BMW engineer said, "We looked at the Offenhauser one-piece cylinder and head and wished we could go there. After fifty years, it was still the benchmark."

[Truckedup]

And Offy may have learned the one piece block and head from the aircraft engines using heated heads with the cylinders screwed in...

[Walter R. Malik]

Rather than simply leasing engines from the manufacturers having controlled horsepower, they should permit the teams to buy those engines and test & run their own internals. If they make more power then the manufacturers involved would be forced to do some more R&D to keep up their leasing programs.

Each "Authorized" engine manufacturer is under contract to spend X-million dollars a year, to promote the series. That's well more then the Series sponsor spends. That gives them a lot of power. They don't want engine competition. They want the engines to all be even, and more importantly, reliable. For them, their money is much better spent on commercials, then engine development. For a car manufacturer sponsoring the series, the advantage of working for a HP advantage, isn't worth the risk of a decrease in reliability.

YES ... it again is all about the money and very little to do with the actual mechanical competition.
Car "set-up" and driver are really the only differences.

In my opinion ... that is sad. Especially remembering previous Indy races where it was worth taking a chance to maybe get a win.

[CamKing]

Heck, the Pole at Indy paid more then winning many other races.
Tom Sneva was famous for having them bolt a "grenade" into the car, and heading out for a last minute Bonsai run.

[dannobee]

And sadly, the US Open golf tourney winner will make more than Indy 500 winner's whole team, while risking almost nothing.

It used to piss me off that the 5th place ladies golfer would take home more money than the 1st place Cup team. Back when the stands were packed with 200K people and national tv coverage.

[frnkeore]

I'm sorry that I was MIA, for the last week but, I had to help set up and help run a tractor show and pull.

First, I think Mike needs to read the forum rules on how to treat forum members.

Second, I believe Mike was to young to have followed Indy Car racing closely, with a objective mind.

Yes, the 4 cyl turbo Offy, had 3 good years but, to my point, regarding "taking the boost" the DNF results, speak for themselves. Look at the attachments.

Here is a brief history of those years at the Indy 500:

'71-Ford
'72-Offy
'73-Offy
'74-Offy
'75-Ford/Foyt
'76-DGS (Offy V8)
'77-Cosworth
'78-Cosworth

'75 Foyt had the pole, over all Offy's
'76 although the DGS was a good engine, it only was successful, while Parnelli was developing the Cosworth.
'78 Indy 500 7 of the top ten qualifiers where Cosworth

I like to back my assertions with facts and not bias memory's. I'm a Ford guy, YES! But, I can not ignore truth, whether it's in my favor, or not. My memory's in my post, regarding Offy's not taking the boost was real so, I went back and documented what actually happen.

[dannobee]

The Offy won the Indy 500 27 times. Offys were often the only engine on the podium, finishing 1-2-3.

Chevrolet has more wins at the Indy 500 than Ford or Cosworth.

The reason that Offy had a lot of DNF's was because the majority of entries had Offy engines.

[mohrperformance]

76 DGS is not the Drake V8 it is the Drake Goosen Sparks 4cyl Bignotti comissioned offy built
by Dale Drake. Some of the greatest names in ultra high performance racing engine history.