Break in oil magic

[Dave Koehler]

I always believed that straight lines, round holes, surface finish and proper clearance will carry the day.
Coatings get bonus points.
If I build an engine to use 20w50 oil that is what I use to assemble, prime and run down the track.
Never, ever an issue.

I can see the wisdom in a break in and possibly a special oil with a cast ring and babbit bearing vintage engine.

To the question. What lofty things are these break in oils accomplishing other than they feel like a good idea?

[RW TECH]

To the question. What lofty things are these break in oils accomplishing other than they feel like a good idea?

They are more profitable with less content in them, so if you're on that side of it that's a bullseye on a lofty goal for sure.

[dannobee]

The only place I could see a benefit would be flat tappet cam break-in. The race flat tappet cams would lose a lobe if you breathed on it wrong. Anything to help those out would be a plus. As for anything else, probably nowhere as critical.

[Dave Koehler]

The only place I could see a benefit would be flat tappet cam break-in. The race flat tappet cams would lose a lobe if you breathed on it wrong. Anything to help those out would be a plus. As for anything else, probably nowhere as critical.

There is that.
GM or Chrysler oil supplement is what I used in the past.
Haven't dealt with a flat tappet for while so open season on that.

[RDY4WAR]

Dedicated break-in oils contain a very high amount of ZDDP (2500-3000 ppm) and also a different type. The ZDDP in break-in oils is a short-chained, secondary alkyl ZDDP designed to be highly reactive at low temperatures. It's not the same type of ZDDP as in common oils or even most racing oils.

They are also free of friction modifiers and viscosity modifiers, both of which can hinder ZDDP reactivity. They contain very little detergents, just enough to get it through the break-in period. Detergents are acid neutralizers and since ZDDP is an acidic ester, high amounts of detergents will attempt to neutralize it. You can see why that's a bad idea for break-in.

There's more to it than there may seem.

[PSA]

Like RDY4WAR said, it's not about what's in the oil, it's about what they didn't add. (That's why adding additives doesn't work the same)
Price might be higher for a number of reasons, but I'm guessing the low production volume is the main thing, high quality might also do it.
Advertising like "The latest Mega-X with liquid unobtanium and kumbaya synthetic for extra bonding" isn't one of the things driving up the price with no added value, people would actually notice more easily for once if the quality was subpar.
If the engine needs it or not needs to be tested, but in a flat tappet engine I would definitely use it.

[BradH]

Would the last 2 posters be more specific about which brand(s) of break-in oil they are referring to? I've come across VOAs for a few different break-in oils and the variations between them are significant with respect to amounts of zinc & phosphorus additives.

[RDY4WAR]

Like RDY4WAR said, it's not about what's in the oil, it's about what they didn't add. (That's why adding additives doesn't work the same)
Price might be higher for a number of reasons, but I'm guessing the low production volume is the main thing, high quality might also do it.
Advertising like "The latest Mega-X with liquid unobtanium and kumbaya synthetic for extra bonding" isn't one of the things driving up the price with no added value, people would actually notice more easily for once if the quality was subpar.
If the engine needs it or not needs to be tested, but in a flat tappet engine I would definitely use it.

The main cost is like you said about volume of production, but it's also because of how it's formulated. The most critical part of break-in is the first 30 seconds after initial startup. Anti-wear and extreme pressure additives need heat to become active which you don't have in that first 30 seconds. So you have to approach other ways to make those additives react at low temperatures. One way to activate those additives is with friction hence you don't want friction modifiers and viscosity modifiers in there reducing that friction.

Note that ZDDP isn't a single additive, but is a family of additives. There's ~200 ZDDPs out there. Some are more reactive and more effective then others. Those same ones also usually much more expensive.

Would the last 2 posters be more specific about which brand(s) of break-in oil they are referring to? I've come across VOAs for a few different break-in oils and the variations between them are significant with respect to amounts of zinc & phosphorus additives.

I can post a VOA of Driven B30 later today.

[Cris]

Thanks RDY4WAR for a great summary of the difference/benefits of break in oils.

I'd be curious what the differences are between Driven and Brad Penn break in oil.

[CamKing]

To the question. What lofty things are these break in oils accomplishing other than they feel like a good idea?

It's about keeping the flat tappet cam and lifters from galling during break-in, and getting the rings to seat.
ZDDP helps with both of these.
Detergents hurt with both of these.
PennGrade1 Break-in oil, is a standard 30w, high in ZDDP, and low in Detergents. Nothing fancy. Not a lot of added chemicals, like some other "Break-in" oils.
That's why we recommend and sell the PennGrade1 break-in oil. For my "Flat tappet" racing customers on a tight budget, they break the cam in with the break-in oil, and race on it for a weekend or two, before changing to their racing oil.

[1972ho]

Speaking of race oils I’ve kind of always been puzzled about what type oil I should use in let’s say a 500 hp 1/4 mile dragrace car that runs in say the low 10’s for only about 4 are 5 passes per day.I would think an engine like this that barely gets up to a oil temperature of 150 degrees would be able to survive on a other than dedicated race only oil over a engine that runs for 20 plus laps were oil temperature can get up to over 240 are more.So would my thinking be wrong?????

[RDY4WAR]

Speaking of race oils I’ve kind of always been puzzled about what type oil I should use in let’s say a 500 hp 1/4 mile dragrace car that runs in say the low 10’s for only about 4 are 5 passes per day.I would think an engine like this that barely gets up to a oil temperature of 150 degrees would be able to survive on a other than dedicated race only oil over a engine that runs for 20 plus laps were oil temperature can get up to over 240 are more.So would my thinking be wrong?????

At 150°F, the oil is a good bit more viscous than at typical operating temp of 212°F. A 20 grade at 150°F is about the same viscosity as a 50 grade at 212°F.

For a mild 500 HP NA drag race only engine, you can usually go away lower oil grade than you would imagine. My Camaro, for example, given the clearances would need a 5w-30 or 10w-30 on the street. Since it's dragstrip only, it uses a 0w-12 with a load of friction modifiers.

A lot of people want to dump in something like a 20w-50, which has the viscosity of maple syrup at <150°F, in a drag only car thinking they are protecting it better. It's not though. It just stresses the pump and robs power. On a 500 HP small block, that could be up to 20 HP just thrown away to hydrodynamic (oil) friction and pumping losses.

Racing oils are more than just that though. They tend to contain more corrosion inhibitors and metal deactivators to keep down rust during storage since race cars can tend to sit for weeks at a time between races. They also tend to have better base oils that's less volatile (oil evaporation/consumption) and more shear stable so you don't have to worry about the viscosity dropping with each pass beating on it. Some racing oils are specific to certain engines like the non-detergent straight grade oils made by High Performance Lubricants for boosted methanol engines.

[1972ho]

RDY4WAR “So what type and viscosity oil would you think that a 500 hp dragrace only car that runs 10:70 @123.00 mph with a weight of 3500# turning about 7500-8100 rpm with bearing main and rod clearance at .002-.0023 needs would be a strict race only only oil are a performance passenger car oil.

[compguy]

I always believed that straight lines, round holes, surface finish and proper clearance will carry the day.
Coatings get bonus points.
If I build an engine to use 20w50 oil that is what I use to assemble, prime and run down the track.
Never, ever an issue.

I can see the wisdom in a break in and possibly a special oil with a cast ring and babbit bearing vintage engine.

To the question. What lofty things are these break in oils accomplishing other than they feel like a good idea?

Here's one for you. 'High end' flat tappet cam, when new on the dyno to break everything in as usual, ceramic foot lifters were used with Joe Gibbs Racing Oil, XP4 (15W50) oil (until one lifter foot got scared and jumped ship). Open force 680lbs, seat force 250lbs, rpm over 9K.
Then changed to DLC coated tool steel lifters (already was a tool steel DLC coated cam core) with the same cam and used Gibbs XP2 (0-20W) oil.
Zero issues, it repeated on the dyno with even a bit more HP, and over 9K rpm again, lift checked at valves, no issues, no lobes worn down. Looked perfect
Everyone told us we were nuts, and to use additives etc and 20W-50 oil.
IMO it might come down to the cam and lifters your using as well as the above I wouldn't think would work on everyday flat tappet stuff.

Your results may vary.

[David Redszus]

Just curious.

What specifically do we expect a "break-in oil" to do that a normal motor oil does not do?

By "specifically" I mean what is the expected effect of the oil on each part of the engine: rings, valves, cams,
bearings, pumps, etc.?

Does the time period available for break-in make a difference as well?