Break in oil magic

[RDY4WAR]

Just curious.

What specifically do we expect a "break-in oil" to do that a normal motor oil does not do?

By "specifically" I mean what is the expected effect of the oil on each part of the engine: rings, valves, cams,
bearings, pumps, etc.?

Does the time period available for break-in make a difference as well?

The main thing with the break-in oil is additive response. There's 3 ways that ZDDP becomes active: heat, pressure, and friction. On initial startup, you have neither heat nor high pressure so you need friction. The right type of ZDDP (short-chained, secondary alkyl), that'll be more reactive at low temperatures, helps a lot as well. Common non-breakin oils, including racing oils, don't have as good of reactivity at low temperatures, mostly due to the type of ZDDP used (blended 70/30 primary/secondary alkyl), the amount of detergents used, and interference from friction modifiers and extreme pressure additives.

The intent is to get an anti-wear tribofilm established as quick as possible to minimize wear during break-in as much as possible. The rings transition through all 3 lubrication regimes, experiencing mixed and boundary lubrication at TDC and BDC and ~20 degrees of rotation each direction from TDC and BDC. ZDDP is active only in mixed and boundary lubrication so getting that AW film established as quick as possible will help keep down ring wear during break-in and help with sealing. The bearings operate solely in full hydrodynamic lubrication so there's no effect there. The base oil is more important there. The valvetrain is the same with wanting that AW film on the lobes, lifters, pushrod tips, rocker tips, etc...

A common API oil like Rotella or "racing" oil like VR1 will still allow the engine to break-in, but the break-in will take longer and accrue more wear in the process.

[David Redszus]

Just curious.

What specifically do we expect a "break-in oil" to do that a normal motor oil does not do?

By "specifically" I mean what is the expected effect of the oil on each part of the engine: rings, valves, cams,
bearings, pumps, etc.?

Does the time period available for break-in make a difference as well?

The main thing with the break-in oil is additive response. There's 3 ways that ZDDP becomes active: heat, pressure, and friction. On initial startup, you have neither heat nor high pressure so you need friction. The right type of ZDDP (short-chained, secondary alkyl), that'll be more reactive at low temperatures, helps a lot as well. Common non-breakin oils, including racing oils, don't have as good of reactivity at low temperatures, mostly due to the type of ZDDP used (blended 70/30 primary/secondary alkyl), the amount of detergents used, and interference from friction modifiers and extreme pressure additives.

The intent is to get an anti-wear tribofilm established as quick as possible to minimize wear during break-in as much as possible. The rings transition through all 3 lubrication regimes, experiencing mixed and boundary lubrication at TDC and BDC and ~20 degrees of rotation each direction from TDC and BDC. ZDDP is active only in mixed and boundary lubrication so getting that AW film established as quick as possible will help keep down ring wear during break-in and help with sealing. The bearings operate solely in full hydrodynamic lubrication so there's no effect there. The base oil is more important there. The valvetrain is the same with wanting that AW film on the lobes, lifters, pushrod tips, rocker tips, etc...

A common API oil like Rotella or "racing" oil like VR1 will still allow the engine to break-in, but the break-in will take longer and accrue more wear in the process.

Thanks. A great answer to a topic that is often filled with mystery and folklore.

[n2omike]

I posted this a year or so ago. The videos are from Lake Speed at Total Seal Pistons rings regarding Break-in oils.

Break-in Procedure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XEYJrSqHtw

Break-in Oils/Science
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teDgJgPeeeU

Oil analysis on 22 different break-in oils, and oils commonly used for break-in.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... eport1.pdf

From what I can see Lucas 30W break-in oil is a steal at around $31 for a 5 quart jug.
Driven is a really good brand. I believe it use to be Joe Gibbs.
Some break-in oils do not match what Total Seal recommends.

Link to that post:
viewtopic.php?t=61152

[autogear]

Lake Speed Jr was the certified lube specialist for "Joe Gibbs" Driven Racing Oil. I think, at one time he was at least part owner.
He definitely knows his stuff

[CamKing]

Lake Speed Jr was the certified lube specialist for "Joe Gibbs" Driven Racing Oil. I think, at one time he was at least part owner.
He definitely knows his stuff

He was a salesman for Gibbs. Maybe Joe certified him
When I asked him technical questions about the oil he was trying to sell me, he had to ask an engineer, and get back to me.

[lefty o]

Lake Speed Jr was the certified lube specialist for "Joe Gibbs" Driven Racing Oil. I think, at one time he was at least part owner.
He definitely knows his stuff

certified lube specialist is the kid that either overfills your crankcase or puts no oil in it at jiffy lube type places!

[autogear]

Lake Speed Jr was the certified lube specialist for "Joe Gibbs" Driven Racing Oil. I think, at one time he was at least part owner.
He definitely knows his stuff

He was a salesman for Gibbs. Maybe Joe certified him
When I asked him technical questions about the oil he was trying to sell me, he had to ask an engineer, and get back to me.

lets be fair; gearbox oil is pretty low on the curve compared to what you are working with
As long as the film strength is application correct? if its too slippery, add friction modifier, if that doesn't work - use something else

At least we would get answers; the guys at Brad Penn after the buy out? Wouldnt even say if their oil was safe for bronze or not, but sent me a nice polo shirt

[BradH]

Lake Speed Jr was the certified lube specialist for "Joe Gibbs" Driven Racing Oil. I think, at one time he was at least part owner.
He definitely knows his stuff

He was a salesman for Gibbs. Maybe Joe certified him
When I asked him technical questions about the oil he was trying to sell me, he had to ask an engineer, and get back to me.

I believe he states he's a Certified Tribologist or Certified Lubrication Specialist. Guess I could be too, if I studied for the 150 multiple-choice question exam and scored at least 70% correct. Of course, that could also mean I'd be wrong up to 30% of the time, as well.

https://www.stle.org/files/Professional ... 8d18add79c

https://www.stle.org/files/Professional ... 80d8cd6455

Oh, says I need "three years of experience working in the field of lubrication." That certainly leaves a lot of room for interpretation...

I'm sure L Speed Jr knows more about the subject area than I do. However, I'm really jaded over people using certifications as proof of expertise when some of the worst Project Managers I've ever worked with came in waiving their CPMs as if everyone could ASSume they actually knew what they were doing...

[Roundybout]

Is the protective layer created sacrificial in that it needs to be replenished? Can a different type of additive (ZDDP) now be used that would normally take too long during a normal break-in procedure?

The first start is critical in that a quality oil with the proper chemistry goes a long way. Then the oils with the proper chemistry for the conditions for a long durable life.

[BradH]

Would the last 2 posters be more specific about which brand(s) of break-in oil they are referring to? I've come across VOAs for a few different break-in oils and the variations between them are significant with respect to amounts of zinc & phosphorus additives.

I can post a VOA of Driven B30 later today.

Ever find that VOA? I've got 7 of these on the shelf and would like to know more about the product. Thx

Resized_20210617_163203_7817.jpeg

[dannobee]

From what I can see Lucas 30W break-in oil is a steal at around $31 for a 5 quart jug.

That's' my feeling on a lot of their stuff. Years ago we got a Lucas sponsorship and with it came free product. At first I was like, "whatever, put it with the rest of the crap." After running out of some of our usual stuff, I reluctantly started trying it, and I was really impressed with almost everything they sold. To this day I won't use anything but Lucas X-Tra Heavy Duty green wheel bearing grease on circle track cars.

[bob460]

Anyone use/tried the 10 10 10 break in method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LzSz9W1Sk

[MELWAY]

Anyone use/tried the 10 10 10 break in method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LzSz9W1Sk

I have mostly done that on flat tappet cam break in

I have found Driven BR oil to be great on flat tappet break in
Upon inspecting lifters after 30min break ins then install heavy springs

[PSA]

Would the last 2 posters be more specific about which brand(s) of break-in oil they are referring to? I've come across VOAs for a few different break-in oils and the variations between them are significant with respect to amounts of zinc & phosphorus additives.

I can post a VOA of Driven B30 later today.

Ever find that VOA? I've got 7 of these on the shelf and would like to know more about the product. Thx

Resized_20210617_163203_7817.jpeg

You must have cut and pasted wrong, it was the other guy that had something to share.

[PSA]

Anyone use/tried the 10 10 10 break in method?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LzSz9W1Sk

I'm not sure what would be gained as you typically want some temperature during break-in, but if they have tested it and found good results I wouldn't doubt their findings either.
The time I was involved in tests like that it was more about the rings (not flat tappet cam), and it was more of a problem of getting the heat up fast enough to put load on the engine. The time window wasn't very big to get an ideal break-in with the combination of materials and machining that was used.