Comp cams cam cores
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Comp cams cam cores
I’m highly suspicious here. I haven’t looked for any other engine family but looking for a milder HFT or hydraulic roller cam for a 351w, comp had plenty of grinds available in stock at summit…nobody else has ANYTHING available other than what appears to be some leftover stock of way too big grinds. How is it that Comp had so much available when nobody else does. Are they using some 3rd world country cores or something?
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Re: Comp cams cam cores
Maybe because they are the largest company and had more cores already in stock than the other small guys ? My understanding is there are only a few core makers anyway.travis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:28 am I’m highly suspicious here. I haven’t looked for any other engine family but looking for a milder HFT or hydraulic roller cam for a 351w, comp had plenty of grinds available in stock at summit…nobody else has ANYTHING available other than what appears to be some leftover stock of way too big grinds. How is it that Comp had so much available when nobody else does. Are they using some 3rd world country cores or something?
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
www.enginerepairshop.com
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
www.enginerepairshop.com
Re: Comp cams cam cores
From this, can we infer that isky, comp, bullet, howards, etc are all using the same cores of the same quality from the same manufacturers? Is everyone still sourcing domestically for old FT stuff, or are the larger companies buying offshore with their volumes?
Re: Comp cams cam cores
Would not take a lot to find out and determine the quality of "offshore" sourced camshaft cores.novadude wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:21 pmFrom this, can we infer that isky, comp, bullet, howards, etc are all using the same cores of the same quality from the same manufacturers? Is everyone still sourcing domestically for old FT stuff, or are the larger companies buying offshore with their volumes?
If these are of good quality so be it...
Re: Comp cams cam cores
There are 2 U.S companies that make cast iron cam cores. One of them, also finish grinds a lot of Comp's catalog cams, and puts them in Comp's boxes.
Both of the U.S. companies have 3 grades of cast iron cams. You can guess which grade they use for the cheap catalog cams.
There are also import cast iron cam cores out there, and some of them look a lot like the U.S. made cores.
I have limited experience with the import cores. We had to use a few, from a company in Turkey, for applications no one else carried.
With those cam cores, we saw a lot of issues. The largest being Porosity(holes or voids in the casting). You can be grinding a lobe, and as you grind off more material, a hole will open up in the face of the lobe. Sometimes it's small, sometimes, it's a 1/4" wide. The real scary part, is that when you grind the whole cam, and don't see any holes, that doesn't mean there's not a void, right below the finished surface.
Both of the U.S. companies have 3 grades of cast iron cams. You can guess which grade they use for the cheap catalog cams.
There are also import cast iron cam cores out there, and some of them look a lot like the U.S. made cores.
I have limited experience with the import cores. We had to use a few, from a company in Turkey, for applications no one else carried.
With those cam cores, we saw a lot of issues. The largest being Porosity(holes or voids in the casting). You can be grinding a lobe, and as you grind off more material, a hole will open up in the face of the lobe. Sometimes it's small, sometimes, it's a 1/4" wide. The real scary part, is that when you grind the whole cam, and don't see any holes, that doesn't mean there's not a void, right below the finished surface.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
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Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: Comp cams cam cores
Thanks for the clarification of the several issues on cast cam cores.
For true, Mike. That's the scariest thing about rebuilding old engines. One can sonic test as thoroughly as possible and still miss a casting inclusion or internal rust pit which will open up in an otherwise sound bore. But as you said, there's always the worry about what's invisible just under the surface until it's hot running and stressed.CamKing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:51 am With those cam cores, we saw a lot of issues. The largest being Porosity(holes or voids in the casting). You can be grinding a lobe, and as you grind off more material, a hole will open up in the face of the lobe. Sometimes it's small, sometimes, it's a 1/4" wide. The real scary part, is that when you grind the whole cam, and don't see any holes, that doesn't mean there's not a void, right below the finished surface.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
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Re: Comp cams cam cores
Yes to a point.novadude wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:21 pmFrom this, can we infer that isky, comp, bullet, howards, etc are all using the same cores of the same quality from the same manufacturers? Is everyone still sourcing domestically for old FT stuff, or are the larger companies buying offshore with their volumes?
Isky has their own foundry for making some cores for older stuff like flat heads etc. but with the long list of grinds most cam companies have these days it would be impossible to have their cores all made in house. But I bet Isky is currently looking at that as an option.
I ordered 2 from them this week and they had lots available but the rough ground cores are in short supply for popular cam profiles.
But as Mike said there is only the companies in the USA they use for rough profiled cores.
Core quality is a major concern for any cam and the FT stuff is always an issue because of how they are produced. I have seen issues like Mike where there is imperfections in the casting that don't show up till after the cam is close to finish ground or later after its in an engine and a noisy lifter appears during break in cause the nose chipped off a lobe.
And now that there seems to be dubious suppliers of generic cams coming up on the market coming from off shore to try and get the market share of the US manufactures. Lifters are another issue as they are in short supply everywhere it seems making any FT cam install questionable as far as longevity goes.
Basically every one gets their cam cores from the same suppliers and lifters are from the same manufactures as well.
But who really knows where comp is getting their cam & lifters from during these times but I am sure they are having supply issues as well.
Real Race Cars Don't Have Doors
Re: Comp cams cam cores
cast cam/core market in such a sh7tstorm, seems a billet steel cam/core is most wise; yea I know many restricted CT cars are bound to flat tappets. I've never used or bought one, but seems there were hi-grade steel (old-Cup) flat tappet cams and maybe still are; no doubt pricey $.
To me, the great proliferation of aftermarket Cast Rollers has been a quality concern ... for all the same porosity issues spelled out above. Even though they're (CR) marketed at premium pricing ... I suspect there'll be an increase in CR failures as well.
Lemme slip my tinfoil thinkin' cap on ... maybe it's akin to Pogo's gummint conspiracies ... snowflakes wanna take down sema & hotrods ... can't run a rod without a hot cam ... harder for most folks to use guns during an ammo shortage.
To me, the great proliferation of aftermarket Cast Rollers has been a quality concern ... for all the same porosity issues spelled out above. Even though they're (CR) marketed at premium pricing ... I suspect there'll be an increase in CR failures as well.
Lemme slip my tinfoil thinkin' cap on ... maybe it's akin to Pogo's gummint conspiracies ... snowflakes wanna take down sema & hotrods ... can't run a rod without a hot cam ... harder for most folks to use guns during an ammo shortage.