Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

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Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by BOOT »

Ok so I have a set of ebay aluminum sbc heads, the common castings that everyone uses these days. Click the link in my signature if you don't know what I'm talking bout.

And my question is should I lightly ball hone the new bronze guides for oil retention?

I was watching skip whites vid on these heads and they mentioned that they ball hone the guides. I know of people who didn't and are fine but I'm always curious to what some have to say.

Thx for any input
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by allencr267 »

ebay aluminum sbc heads
That phrase doesn't always mean a great finish to begin with.
How are they finished, surface & size wise?
There's hardly anything that can't stand to be deburred & smoothed & polished & cleaned more.
Good luck.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by rustbucket79 »

I would be more concerned they have the required clearance than a surface finish.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

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You guys should know how much is removed from a quick pass with a hone....
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by ClassAct »

BOOT wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:26 am You guys should know how much is removed from a quick pass with a hone....
It depends on the hone, the oil used, stone pressure. Your technique may be different than mine so who knows. Measure the guide clearance and hone it and measure it again. Then you will know.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

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If only some on here put as much effort into their answer as they do to sound clever.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by mag2555 »

If your counting on a crosshatch finish to save you from the Mayhem of to tight of a stem to guide clearance, then your barking up the wrong tree there.

First check the basics.
confirm that all of the valves stems are straight and then confirm the needed stem to guide clearance and if you need a tad more then you can get those ball honed.
after that confirm that the valve to seat contact is area is complete with some layout dye and fine lapping compound.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by BOOT »

Never said anything about the size being too tight or other.

Simply asked a question on Ball Hone finish.

Again does anyone have an answer that doesn't assume other?
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by ProPower engines »

BOOT wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:00 pm Never said anything about the size being too tight or other.

Simply asked a question on Ball Hone finish.

Again does anyone have an answer that doesn't assume other?
The reason for the ball hone is they ream the guides and that leaves tooling marks.
All the ball hone does is attempts to take the high spots off. It will not but it looks better on a bare head.
A ball hone will not remove any appreciable material unless you give about 50 strokes in a well lubed guide and at best a few 10th's. Its intent is to hold some lube in the guide on fire up and break in.

Just food for thought but if you are going to use some of their heads plan on checking the valve stems for run out and taper.
You will find taper in the stems and plenty of run out in the stems. The main reason they have extra guide clearance is to use cheaper parts.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

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ProPower engines wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:19 pm The reason for the ball hone is they ream the guides and that leaves tooling marks.
All the ball hone does is attempts to take the high spots off. It will not but it looks better on a bare head.
A ball hone will not remove any appreciable material unless you give about 50 strokes in a well lubed guide and at best a few 10th's. Its intent is to hold some lube in the guide on fire up and break in.

Just food for thought but if you are going to use some of their heads plan on checking the valve stems for run out and taper.
You will find taper in the stems and plenty of run out in the stems. The main reason they have extra guide clearance is to use cheaper parts.
Thx for the reply to my question

They are bare heads, I avoid buying assembled heads because I like to use parts that I like.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by David Redszus »

BOOT wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:30 pm
ProPower engines wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:19 pm The reason for the ball hone is they ream the guides and that leaves tooling marks.
All the ball hone does is attempts to take the high spots off. It will not but it looks better on a bare head.
A ball hone will not remove any appreciable material unless you give about 50 strokes in a well lubed guide and at best a few 10th's. Its intent is to hold some lube in the guide on fire up and break in.

Just food for thought but if you are going to use some of their heads plan on checking the valve stems for run out and taper.
You will find taper in the stems and plenty of run out in the stems. The main reason they have extra guide clearance is to use cheaper parts.
Thx for the reply to my question

They are bare heads, I avoid buying assembled heads because I like to use parts that I like.
As you know, valve guides tend to become hour-glass shaped after installation.
Assuming the size and shape are to your satisfaction, a ball hone surface is beneficial for oil
retention and to reduce machining scars on the running surface.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by rustbucket79 »

Your question specifically asked about the importance of honing a finish into guides, I was quite clear that the correct clearance was important. Millions of engines running in the world with a machined finish on their guides, if it was important they would all have a honed finish.

FWIW ball hone the guides, run the engine for an hour, and look at the guides. The top and bottom where the stems rub you’ll find they are worn smooth once again.
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by BOOT »

rustbucket79 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:39 pm Your question specifically asked about the importance of honing a finish into guides, I was quite clear that the correct clearance was important. Millions of engines running in the world with a machined finish on their guides, if it was important they would all have a honed finish.

FWIW ball hone the guides, run the engine for an hour, and look at the guides. The top and bottom where the stems rub you’ll find they are worn smooth once again.
See my post/reply to your first post.

And we all know how that factory millions of vehicles example goes, Cost Always Factors.

I am not a machinist and don't care how asking a question makes me look, if I learn something in the long run. Asking questions is how speedtalk is intended to work, some like to reply or make a clever comment but not contribute and that usually sidetracks a post so that it never gets answered or discourages others from posting. ProPower Engines answered it nicely. A company like Skip White honing the guides makes sense, that way they reduce returns & initial problems even if it possibly shortens the life of a guide.

I myself had a bad experience with too tight guides, all 8 exhaust were too tight and no ass-lube or honing would have helped. That was the machinist's error. Again from my original post "I was watching skip whites vid on these heads and they mentioned that they ball hone the guides. I know of people who didn't and are fine but I'm always curious to what some have to say."
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by David Redszus »

BOOT wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:30 am
rustbucket79 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:39 pm Your question specifically asked about the importance of honing a finish into guides, I was quite clear that the correct clearance was important. Millions of engines running in the world with a machined finish on their guides, if it was important they would all have a honed finish.

FWIW ball hone the guides, run the engine for an hour, and look at the guides. The top and bottom where the stems rub you’ll find they are worn smooth once again.
See my post/reply to your first post.

And we all know how that factory millions of vehicles example goes, Cost Always Factors.

I am not a machinist and don't care how asking a question makes me look, if I learn something in the long run. Asking questions is how speedtalk is intended to work, some like to reply or make a clever comment but not contribute and that usually sidetracks a post so that it never gets answered or discourages others from posting. ProPower Engines answered it nicely. A company like Skip White honing the guides makes sense, that way they reduce returns & initial problems even if it possibly shortens the life of a guide.

I myself had a bad experience with too tight guides, all 8 exhaust were too tight and no ass-lube or honing would have helped. That was the machinist's error. Again from my original post "I was watching skip whites vid on these heads and they mentioned that they ball hone the guides. I know of people who didn't and are fine but I'm always curious to what some have to say."
As is frequently the case, one answer raises another question.

How are guide bores usually machined by the manufacturer?
Are they drilled? Bored? Broached? Ground? Reamed? Honed?

What range of surface finishes are typically found among OEM guides?
What finish is recommended by the manufacturer of the guide? And valve maker?

What surface finish is desired for cast iron and bronze guides?
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Re: Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

I have used a ball hone for a quick fix.

I have a really nice Sunnen hone set, never use it.

For the last 10 years been using carbide reamers, done.

No cross hatch, never had any sort of issue.
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