Ball Hone New Bronze Guides

[PRH]

My normal strategy for new heads is to measure the guide clearance and adjust(rigid hone) as required.
Sometimes they need it, sometimes they don’t.

I rarely ever use the ball hone on new guides.
I’d say it gets used most often when reconditioning used heads after they have been bead blasted and I’m looking for an improved surface finish in the used guide.

I don’t even attempt to “size” anything with a ball hone.
A few strokes....... done.

Most of the import heads I’ve had in the shop over the last few years have had plenty of guide clearance......... often around .002”.

[rustbucket79]

Your question specifically asked about the importance of honing a finish into guides, I was quite clear that the correct clearance was important. Millions of engines running in the world with a machined finish on their guides, if it was important they would all have a honed finish.

FWIW ball hone the guides, run the engine for an hour, and look at the guides. The top and bottom where the stems rub you’ll find they are worn smooth once again.

See my post/reply to your first post.

And we all know how that factory millions of vehicles example goes, Cost Always Factors.

I am not a machinist and don't care how asking a question makes me look, if I learn something in the long run. Asking questions is how speedtalk is intended to work, some like to reply or make a clever comment but not contribute and that usually sidetracks a post so that it never gets answered or discourages others from posting. ProPower Engines answered it nicely. A company like Skip White honing the guides makes sense, that way they reduce returns & initial problems even if it possibly shortens the life of a guide.

I myself had a bad experience with too tight guides, all 8 exhaust were too tight and no ass-lube or honing would have helped. That was the machinist's error. Again from my original post "I was watching skip whites vid on these heads and they mentioned that they ball hone the guides. I know of people who didn't and are fine but I'm always curious to what some have to say."

You (presumably) took my response as humour, but it wasn’t intended. You can find guides in a multitude of bore styles, but the end result is the same, sufficient clearance and you’re good to go, too tight and sadness is the result.

Your thread started by asking about surface prep, not clearance.

[sbcharlie]

First of all there not a hone there are brush to put a hone like finish on a inside bore

[modok]

If the thing that goes in the hole is round, the hole should be round too.
So you would use a rigid hone, good reamer, one pass hone, diamond hone....

So the only time to use a dingleberry hone would be..... to smooth or clean the hole if the hole is an oval and already too big.
Does not matter if the hole is Chinese or not.

Is what I would say if I wanted to be a hard-ass.

But actually I do get the theory of the brush hone. It can put a fresh and better surface finish on any surface which should theoretically be very useful, and help to "clean"..... release any particles of abrasive or metal chunks lodged in the surface..... in theory

But i just never use them, 95% of the time there is some other tool that works better so I rarely use them.

Bronze pressed fit into aluminum.... are not very stable materials so since TIME has passed, possibly made in a rush and stored too long.... it's probably going to warp such that a rigid hone will not touch the whole surface.....but a rigid hone will put a fresh surface on all the parts the valve stem WILL initially touch. and the areas it does not touch initially.... will probably grow oxide and collect dirt again before the stem gets around to touching them.
Contamination from the abrasive in the brush hone is also contamination, so..... I expect it to do as much harm as good, if it's close to right. And if it's not close to right it needs to be righted rightly.
A sharp reamer, a carbide reamer, or a diamond hone leaves virtually no abrasive behind, so there should be no need to clean the grit out.

If the guide was somehow machined to the correct size AND straight, with a dull reamer or inadequately lubricated rocks glued to a twig, COULD happen...so the hole needs to be smoothed and cleaned with the brush hone..... it could happen, but it's not something that happens often.

[BOOT]

Your thread started by asking about surface prep, not clearance.

Exactly my point and you replied about clearance not finish.

[BOOT]

Here's the video, prob should have included in the first post https://youtu.be/D8Y1F3wNPCE?t=58

[BOOT]

If the thing that goes in the hole is round, the hole should be round too.
So you would use a rigid hone, good reamer, one pass hone, diamond hone....

So the only time to use a dingleberry hone would be..... to smooth or clean the hole if the hole is an oval and already too big.
Does not matter if the hole is Chinese or not.

Is what I would say if I wanted to be a hard-ass.

But actually I do get the theory of the brush hone. It can put a fresh and better surface finish on any surface which should theoretically be very useful, and help to "clean"..... release any particles of abrasive or metal chunks lodged in the surface..... in theory

But i just never use them, 95% of the time there is some other tool that works better so I rarely use them.

Bronze pressed fit into aluminum.... are not very stable materials so since TIME has passed, possibly made in a rush and stored too long.... it's probably going to warp such that a rigid hone will not touch the whole surface.....but a rigid hone will put a fresh surface on all the parts the valve stem WILL initially touch. and the areas it does not touch initially.... will probably grow oxide and collect dirt again before the stem gets around to touching them.
Contamination from the abrasive in the brush hone is also contamination, so..... I expect it to do as much harm as good, if it's close to right. And if it's not close to right it needs to be righted rightly.
A sharp reamer, a carbide reamer, or a diamond hone leaves virtually no abrasive behind, so there should be no need to clean the grit out.

If the guide was somehow machined to the correct size AND straight, with a dull reamer or inadequately lubricated rocks glued to a twig, COULD happen...so the hole needs to be smoothed and cleaned with the brush hone..... it could happen, but it's not something that happens often.

Good points

LOL your post kinda reminds me of when I asked a simple ball-hone question on a machinist forum and they wouldn't stop obsessing about what it was for, instead of answering the question. And when I finally did tell them,they were like "you'll never get it clean!". I don't rem the exact question but it was something I read in a book or see some pro do LOL

[BOOT]

Most of the import heads I’ve had in the shop over the last few years have had plenty of guide clearance......... often around .002”.

Yah, kinda expected these heads to be on the safer(large) side of things and not to last forever But the cost was cheaper than getting a set of other heads I already own redone.