How much HP can this head support?
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How much HP can this head support?
I have a set of W-2 Mopar heads that flow 294 intake/180 exhaust. 13-1/alky/7200-7500 rpm/M-1 single plane/850 BG.
How many horses with a head like that support in an endurance application. I will have it dyno's but just curious.
How many horses with a head like that support in an endurance application. I will have it dyno's but just curious.
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Re: How much HP can this head support?
Assuming the intake manifold is not the cork and the right Cam with the right placement of the overlap to get into the 155% VE range and a merge collector type exh you could see 625 hp on Ally.
It would help to know how many cid we are talking about for that power band you want though!
It would help to know how many cid we are talking about for that power band you want though!
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
Re: How much HP can this head support?
"and the right Cam with the right placement of the overlap to get into the 155% VE range"
155% VE ??
155% VE ??
Re: How much HP can this head support?
We made 670 on a 388 NA on race C12 fuel at 7300 W2 Oval port 200CC 305 intake 190 Exhaust 8% loss 283 cfm with Victor Intake.
1050 carb
13to1
270 270 108 .640 lift
Offset cast 360 crank 3.625
Aluminum rods
X Block 4.125
1050 carb
13to1
270 270 108 .640 lift
Offset cast 360 crank 3.625
Aluminum rods
X Block 4.125
Re: How much HP can this head support?
it would take some highly optimistic dyno settings to get there on a na motor.
Re: How much HP can this head support?
Those flow numbers are close to what we used to see out of the Brodix 10X heads, and they would make 650hp pretty easy with 12.5:1 compression.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: How much HP can this head support?
I did a 419 CID SBM with customer-supplied W2 Econo heads and Strip Dominator intake, both ported back in the early 1980's. Compression ratio was 10.5:1-ish, and cam was a 264°-272° duration @ .050" with .675"-ish lift. Pump gas, 4150 carburetor, etc.
Off the top of my head I don't remember TQ (probably 540-550-ish) but HP was high 660's and fuel was very-very conservatively tuned (~.82-.84 lambda). This was a slower sweep rate with no inertia added so I'd guess it would have been 690-ish HP if it was tested the way a lot of shops do (fast sweep + inertia).
Off the top of my head I don't remember TQ (probably 540-550-ish) but HP was high 660's and fuel was very-very conservatively tuned (~.82-.84 lambda). This was a slower sweep rate with no inertia added so I'd guess it would have been 690-ish HP if it was tested the way a lot of shops do (fast sweep + inertia).
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Re: How much HP can this head support?
Come on gang!
No one could tell I screwed up and put a 5 where a 1 should have been?
No one could tell I screwed up and put a 5 where a 1 should have been?
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
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Re: How much HP can this head support?
Back in the day those Brodix 10 X heads were a pretty good head that did things right with the right components. They had decent valve gear stability, made decent power and flow numbers, but drove down and around the track well. Used a bunch of them.
Adger Smith
Adger Smith Performance Engines
903 794 7223 shop
903 824 4924 cell
adgersperf@aol.com e-mail
Adger Smith Performance Engines
903 794 7223 shop
903 824 4924 cell
adgersperf@aol.com e-mail
Re: How much HP can this head support?
Thanks guys...
This is an oval track deal running 1/2 mile dirt (mostly...some 1/3 miles).
The heads have been mildly ported...still oval shape. 4.040 x 3.79 for 388 cubes. RaceTec pistons, Crower I-beam rods and a Mopar billet crank. Wet sump. Some say the Mopar M-1 intake is not as good as an Strip Dominator but it's what I have and it's ported to match the heads.
Using 5/16" 2.02/1.60 Manley stainless valves.
I have two camshafts both sold FT. The Jones is 254@.050. .394 lift ( using 1.5 T&D rockers) 5.74/.549 at the valve. 106 LSA (IIRC)
I also have a Howards .599/.616 lift. 254/260 @ .050 on 108 LSA.
MSD dizzy with an MSD 6T analog box.
My carb is an early Barry Grant alky conversion. I added a BoLaws 850 base plate to the 750 cfm body. I'm not married to this carb but I got it with the engine. Might get a new one and keep this as a spare.
I have been fooling with this engine and car for three years. I was ready to assemble the whole deal and be trackside this season but I have had some medical issues over the fall/winter that set me way back. Knee replacement in November, two widowmaker heart attacks one week apart in December then a shoulder replacement in May. That matches the two implants I already have.
Now I'm looking at pain management for my back (five herniated discs) or surgery this fall. Just getting able to get out in the shop... still gaining strength and endurance...slooowly.
My wife sez she will sell me for parts when I die.
Thanks for your input.
This is an oval track deal running 1/2 mile dirt (mostly...some 1/3 miles).
The heads have been mildly ported...still oval shape. 4.040 x 3.79 for 388 cubes. RaceTec pistons, Crower I-beam rods and a Mopar billet crank. Wet sump. Some say the Mopar M-1 intake is not as good as an Strip Dominator but it's what I have and it's ported to match the heads.
Using 5/16" 2.02/1.60 Manley stainless valves.
I have two camshafts both sold FT. The Jones is 254@.050. .394 lift ( using 1.5 T&D rockers) 5.74/.549 at the valve. 106 LSA (IIRC)
I also have a Howards .599/.616 lift. 254/260 @ .050 on 108 LSA.
MSD dizzy with an MSD 6T analog box.
My carb is an early Barry Grant alky conversion. I added a BoLaws 850 base plate to the 750 cfm body. I'm not married to this carb but I got it with the engine. Might get a new one and keep this as a spare.
I have been fooling with this engine and car for three years. I was ready to assemble the whole deal and be trackside this season but I have had some medical issues over the fall/winter that set me way back. Knee replacement in November, two widowmaker heart attacks one week apart in December then a shoulder replacement in May. That matches the two implants I already have.
Now I'm looking at pain management for my back (five herniated discs) or surgery this fall. Just getting able to get out in the shop... still gaining strength and endurance...slooowly.
My wife sez she will sell me for parts when I die.
Thanks for your input.
Last edited by Krooser on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
Re: How much HP can this head support?
I have friends still using those heads.Adger Smith wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:29 pm Back in the day those Brodix 10 X heads were a pretty good head that did things right with the right components. They had decent valve gear stability, made decent power and flow numbers, but drove down and around the track well. Used a bunch of them.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
Re: How much HP can this head support?
I have a pair of 10X spread port heads I would like to take the titanium valves out of and switch over to stainless valves, just need to find who makes headers for a 2nd gen Camaro or buy some used ones and make my own.
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Re: How much HP can this head support?
So you say they are mildly ported and attaining 294 cfm up from the stock 240 or so?
At what lift is the 294 cfm coming in at?
Is it in the range of the lift of either of those two Cams you have?
At what lift is the 294 cfm coming in at?
Is it in the range of the lift of either of those two Cams you have?
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
Re: How much HP can this head support?
.600 lift before they laid over. If I got those intake ports squared off I have been told they would do 330 cfm.
Had an old friend flow them since the PO didn't remember what they did. He has a pretty honest flow bench (and dyno) and does not sugar coat the numbers to make the customer feel better.
The wonky pushrod angles on the SBM heads cost you a bit of lift but not so much with the W2 heads which have the pushrods moved off center. But I will use 3/8" pushrods to keep as much as I can.
This engine did 575 HP when first built back in '93. Ran about 18 nights and was stored until '07 when it was put into a dirt A mod and was run cold on alky and it ultimately took out two rod bearings, the crank, four pistons three rods and one cylinder. I fixed it and it's ready to be assembled after I do some oiling modifications.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019