It's all about the FUEL

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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by hoodeng »

That!!! my friend In-Tech is the dance!!!

The gun is always loaded and the dog always bites.

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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

20-30% nitro generally won't require a change in the ignition system energy, because of the necessarily small volume/mass of nitro involved as mentioned.

Fuel control is where care must be taken. A puddle of nitro is a puddle of power and is a big cylinder pressure event (can be a problem for engines not specifically built for nitro). There are a number of ways to get too much nitro volume/mass into the cylinder, briefly, even at just a 20-30% mix.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by ptuomov »

Thinking about this a little more from the perspective of a street turbo car. Below the turbine spool rpm, one would need chemical oxidizer and fuel. Above the turbine spool rpm, one just needs higher octane to prevent knock. What’s the best solution here?
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by BLSTIC »

ptuomov wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:33 pm Thinking about this a little more from the perspective of a street turbo car. Below the turbine spool rpm, one would need chemical oxidizer and fuel. Above the turbine spool rpm, one just needs higher octane to prevent knock. What’s the best solution here?
Perhaps a dual injector setup with water/meth (plus minimum of soluble oil) on the secondaries would be the answer here?

It seems that running an additive just for off-boost full throttle performance would be largely a waste of time in a street car
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by RDY4WAR »

This thread has me thinking of different fuel mixtures for the fun of it. What if one was to make E85 using pure ethanol with 15% acetone? Basically tune it like E98 since they have similar stoich, boiling point, and density.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

RDY4WAR wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:34 pm What if one was to make E85 using pure ethanol with 15% acetone? Basically tune it like E98 since they have similar stoich, boiling point, and density.
What were you hoping to see happen ?
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by RDY4WAR »

nitro2 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:18 am
RDY4WAR wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:34 pm What if one was to make E85 using pure ethanol with 15% acetone? Basically tune it like E98 since they have similar stoich, boiling point, and density.
What were you hoping to see happen ?
I don't know. I just like chemistry. :)
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

RDY4WAR wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:16 pm
nitro2 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:18 am
RDY4WAR wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:34 pm What if one was to make E85 using pure ethanol with 15% acetone? Basically tune it like E98 since they have similar stoich, boiling point, and density.
What were you hoping to see happen ?
I don't know. I just like chemistry. :)
:)

Acetone is like a first aid kit for fuel, several small problems can be eliminated with acetone, but if there is no problem to start with, acetone really won't do anything useful.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by fabr »

Acetone is like a first aid kit for fuel, several small problems can be eliminated with acetone, but if there is no problem to start with, acetone really won't do anything useful.
[/quote]
Would you please elaborate?
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

fabr wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:23 pm Acetone is like a first aid kit for fuel, several small problems can be eliminated with acetone, but if there is no problem to start with, acetone really won't do anything useful.
Would you please elaborate?


Acetone is a very low boiling point fuel, with high octane, stable combustion, and it mixes with practically any other fuel, as well as with water, and can be used to mix many liquids that don't otherwise mix. It's harmful cleaning/corrosive effects are highly exaggerated. So it is useful component for some things, but it's not going to make anything special for power. Exotic fuels like nitro, they make power.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

nitro2 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:12 am Acetone is like a first aid kit for fuel, several small problems can be eliminated with acetone, but if there is no problem to start with, acetone really won't do anything useful.
fabr wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:23 pm
Would you please elaborate?
Acetone is a very low boiling point fuel, with high octane, stable combustion, and it mixes with practically any other fuel, as well as with water, and can be used to mix many liquids that don't otherwise mix. It's harmful cleaning/corrosive effects are highly exaggerated. So it is a useful component for some things, but it's not going to make anything special for power. Exotic fuels like nitro, they make power.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by fabr »

Would an acetone and ethanol blend of E85 make ethanol easier to fire up at low ambient temperatures due to low boiling point of acetone? If so,how would that affect the tune of E85 composed of ethanol and 87 unleaded?
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by David Redszus »

Following are data for acetone, ethanol and a 15/85 blend.


.....Acetone...Ethanol..Blend15/85
MON ....90........90........90
RON ...110......109.......109.2
O2.......27.5.....34.6.....33.5
BP........133......174......167.9
RVP......4.35......1.8........2.18
Hvap ...127.......370.......334
Hcomb.12298....11493.....11614
Stoich...9.51.....8.99.......9.07
SpG......0.79.....0.794.....0.793
Power....1293.....1278......1281
Enrich....7.5.......7.1......7.2

The only areas that show a significant change due to the addition of 15% acetone
are the reduction in boiling point and the reduction in fuel evaporative charge cooling.

Acetone is expensive and provides very little benefit. Other fuel components could be
used to provide greater performance improvement.
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by nitro2 »

fabr wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:34 am Would an acetone and ethanol blend of E85 make ethanol easier to fire up at low ambient temperatures due to low boiling point of acetone? If so,how would that affect the tune of E85 composed of ethanol and 87 unleaded?
Well acetone sure makes a methanol engine fire up better on a cold day. :) Stops methanol lean runaways too :lol:
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Re: It's all about the FUEL

Post by David Redszus »

nitro2 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 am
fabr wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:34 am Would an acetone and ethanol blend of E85 make ethanol easier to fire up at low ambient temperatures due to low boiling point of acetone? If so,how would that affect the tune of E85 composed of ethanol and 87 unleaded?
Well acetone sure makes a methanol engine fire up better on a cold day. :) Stops methanol lean runaways too :lol:
Acetone added to methanol will lower the boiling point, but more important will reduce the Latent Heat
of Evaporation which will lower the amount of heat necessary to evaporate methanol.
In fact, a blend of 25% acetone and 75% methanol would make a decent fuel.
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