Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Caprimaniac
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Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by Caprimaniac »

Engine- guys; I have made my first BIG Mess-up....

Planned and gathered parts for my first true race- engine for the last 4 years; a 8.2" SBF, N/A. Stock style oiling- system (Melling "Race"- pump, Canton pan & åickup).

Spent last winter assembling the engine. Laboriously; taking care... doing things right...

Took some months getting engine into chassis, cooling hoses to fit, some missing hose ends for the fuel system... But finally ready for firing up and initial tune- up a couple of weeks ago.

Before I pushed the button, I need primong to check if oil system is good to go. First try; I lost the alumium bit- holder I used to reach down on the distributor-/ oil pump axle down the guts of the engine. Pan had to come off, as I have no aluminum magnet. So; at the end of the day I made an oil priming- tool. Spun the engine, and oil showed up an mostly all 16 rockers. some were a bit lazy, nut..

Now... after start- up the oil pressure has shown good .... to NO good. Near zero or 4 psi.... And it stays there. Dr

What's wrong? Something clogged? Oil- pickup broken or come loose? Oil- shaft broken? Missing plug in engine block?

And ofcourse the big question: Did the crank or bearings get toasted after 4 minutes of running?

I'm DYING to find time to drop the pan and investigate....

Yes; I'm using the engine- tech section as a frustration-blog, again!

Can YOU geuss what's wrong?

I just thought of something: I used gaffa- tape on the bit which got into the engine. Maybe enough of it got "lost" in there to clog the system? But... I don't find it to be a good theory.
I know there was some tension on the pick- up tube. maybe enough to tear it open, sucking air?

In a week I'll probably know the answer.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by mag2555 »

So this a 8.2 liter / 500 cid motor?
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by BillK »

What happens if you try your priming tool again ?
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by fordified »

Cut the oil filter open and look for material especially bearing material. If it’s clean here’s what I would do for starters.

Check the oil pump shaft. Get a steel priming tool and see if you get pressure. Try another pressure gauge. Pull the pan and see if the oil pump pick up has enough clearance from the bottom of the pan. Check the gaskets on the pump and pick up. Pull the front cover and make sure you oil gallery plugs are there.

Those are the obvious places to start.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by Moparboy440 »

mag2555 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:53 am So this a 8.2 liter / 500 cid motor?
8.2" is the deck height..
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by BCjohnny »

...... after start- up the oil pressure has shown good .... to NO good. Near zero or 4 psi ......
So you had pressure and now don't ?

If so initial WAG would be somethings jammed the OP pressure relief open from the build ...... blob of silicon etc etc
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by PRH »

“If” the oil pressure was normal at start up....... and then it suddenly went to zero psi....... then my vote is the shaft is twisted off.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by rebelrouser »

I vote for a twisted oil pump drive shaft or broken pin in the distributor gear as well, seen that happen many times over the years on a Ford. The drive shaft is just too small, in my opinion . Stock ones used to do it from pieces of valve stem seals getting in the pump gears, any small piece of debris, even a small chip left over from manufacture would cause it. And even if you are careful, sometimes you get small debris on a new rebuild.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by 1972ho »

Did you happen to put any oil restrictors in this engine if so which areas did you restrict
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by lance flake »

Oil galley plug came out/not installed. One of the 3 in front under timing Chan cover or 3/4 plug under intake.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by Caprimaniac »

Thank you, all who replied.

Yes I tried another - or two actually- runs with the priming tool. Last try today, as I had a theory of tilted car/ engine sucked air. But no luck...

There's no oil restrictors anywhere. All pugs installed- but wait, there something to it....

The shaft is 100% good. So is the oil pump, distributor gear, pickup/ tube and thankfully the bearings & crank.
The oil- pump had a free- moving relieff valve; no jamming there.

I noticed- when undoing the bottom cover of the oilpump, oil drained from the pickup- pipe: signs of a vacuum.

Back to the galley plugs. The engine block was sent out to get bigger bores. The block was "cleaned" at the shop.... But no; they didn't take the galley plugs off to clean out the oil channels for the lifters/ upper part of engine. NEITHER DID I..... just sprayed with air an washed all lifter bores, cylinders, etc. May the galleys be plugged? (Worried of the lifters
condidtion, indeed.)

What seems strange; oil pump seems 100% fine, so oil should be drawn in. But again- oil pressure sensor is DRY. Could a clogged galley make the oil stop at the pump- so to speak an air bobble meakes it impossible to get the oil on it's way? I would guess NO- excess oil would be pressed out between the rods, at the side of the mains etc.

What about a clogged oil filter? As I understand it, oil goes from pump, to filter and the to the oil pressure sender and into the block? Or? BTW, this is an aftermarket WORLD block.

I one further question/ addition to the story. There are coated King "Race series" bearings on both rods and mains. It's dar coloured, black almost. All the oil in the engine was contaminated with some blackish stuff. And, the one rodbearing I inspected had worn out most of the coating..... Could it be it clogging the oil filter?

I have seen people advicing other bearing makers thanthe coated Kings. Are they shitty?
IDK.... But as I understand it, but I have to look further into it- the bearings will run fine, even if the coating is worn off. It will, sooner or later anyway.

Still at a loss- going to split the oil filter next weekend.

Thanks again.
RS
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by jsgarage »

RS, this may not fix your priming but it's good practice with pushrod Ford V-8s. Fords tend to first shear (or partially shear, which may be worse) the distributor gear drive pin before twisting a stock 'coathanger-steel' driveshaft. That pin in a 350 Chev is three sizes bigger than what Ford uses. Either use two pins- one inside the other, or enlarge the pin hole in the gear & dizzy shaft for a larger pin.

I do NOT recommend using 'roll pins' made of a roll of thin steel foil with no center hole. They do not take shock loads well and will progressively crack. Only use split pins with a central hole. Then use a Moroso or other aftermarket driveshaft of chrome/moly. Even Ford Motorsport sells the good driveshafts, cheaply. Ford gearotor oil pumps are extremely intolerant of any debris going thru the pump. Good luck.
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by Caprimaniac »

Hi. Thanks for the split- pin trick. I reused an old Ford- pin when I assembeled the China cam- sensor I'm currenty ucing. And I have an OS ARP driveshaft. I'ts big diameter, but sdtill small on each end, so that is where it will break.

I am still thinking... Yes, the oil was contaminated with some dark stuff. Actually, in the front sump there was a grimy gravy black stuff. BEARING COATING? I suspect the oil filter is blocked with that stuff.

Then no oil would follow the pathway, and hence 0 pressure? Am I correct?

Or is it in the pump- which looked pristine... I will mock up the pump w/ pickup outside the engine and drive it with a drill to see if it works properly. It should; I see no reason not.

But then IF the bearing coating is the reason for a clogged oil filter- why did it end up there? I do not seem to grab the root cause.... Yet
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by BillK »

I dont think the coating on the bearings is thick enough to show up as grimy gravy black stuff in the oil pan. I have seen that type of stuff once in the past where a customer used waaaaay too much black moly grease assembly lube. It made a mess of things. Yours almost sounds like there was dirt in the oil passages and since the plugs were not removed to properly clean the block thats probably what you are seeing ? Could be from the hone too. That stuff gets everywhere and if not cleaned out will also make a mess. How on earth do you bore and hone a block and not take the oil galley plugs out to clean it afterwards ?
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Re: Let's play "Guess what's wrong"

Post by My427stang »

If you use a speed wrench and a socket, what's it feel like? I have long stopped using priming tools on Fords, faster and easier to go by hand

If it doesn't prime, look close at your pickup for an air leak, but you should feel it priming if it's anything on the output side of the pump
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