How much to flow heads

[mt-engines]

mt-engines wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:41 pm
Why flow a head for $50 when I can do a VJ for $300.. hourly labor is required.. some are dirty, some need a valve job. Some need me to find a valve.. shop rate

This is a red flag for me. I'm a retired aerospace machine shop owner so, I have been in business and couldn't do the above, to anyone.

The only way I can see something like that that to be ethical, would be to give a big discount on the flow bench so, the customer could actually see what that "special" valve job would do, in before and after testing.

I wanted my head tested, because I had ported it, using my valve angles! Now if MT said that he could improve the flow by ~x cfm, with his modifications. I might say "go for it" but, there will have to be a improvement, close to your numbers or no extra $.

I do agree with the condition of the heads, be a variable on pricing. My where clean and bare.

All I'm saying is if it takes .5 hour to flow a port, and I charge $65 .. is that too much?

If someone wants to argue price.... buy the machine, buy the electricity, bore sizes fixtures etc.. and rethink what I said..

If you want me to do a flow study, you pay for the time.. why should I lower my shop rate for anything tied to my business?

Thats why I mentioned a valve job.. i'd rather do a valve job and resurface vs barter some guy that wants to know an arbitrary value. I do not have a problem flowing a head.. but don't tell me what my time is worth.

[Racer97]

I was asking about cost to flow to get a average price around the country. To see how much more I have been told. NJ is expensive state so most likely it's more here.. I'm still going to get it done by him. Sorry you guys got heated.

[In-Tech]

Money is time. I'm fair as fack, if someone questions it, I push their crap outside and tell them to pick it up. Game over and I don't play. go to anywhere else and you will wish for second place.

[In-Tech]

I was asking about cost to flow to get a average price around the country. To see how much more I have been told. NJ is expensive state so most likely it's more here.. I'm still going to get it done by him. Sorry you guys got heated.

It's a fair question. Go to a reputable shop and either pay what he asks or don't ask. Pretty simple, you don't have to go back if he wasn't fair. Chances are your are going to spend at least a half hour talking. Who pays for that? I don't have business cards nor signs on the +20,000 sq ft I have. I also don't answer the phone and am minimum 3 months deep

[F-BIRD'88]

Might be a business opportunity to specialize in just flow testing cylinder heads and intake manifolds for the public and some machine shops.. Flow test and report.
That way machinist can concentrate on doing what they trained for.
You could offer fair market prices because your business is set up to be more efficient at the service yiu skillfully offer.. Overhead both overall and Per Hour overhead cost can be much better VS a machine shop that stops doing machining to flow test heads.
Something to consider as a service that is in demand.

[fabr]

I'm not UNICEF.

If your time is worth $300 an hour then I'd prefer to go elsewhere since we know that flowing a head is not an advanced job, you just need an expensive piece of equipment. Same as I wouldn't pay you to sweep my shop floor at that rate, I'd hire someone else less skilled. It's just good business practice.

And that piece of equipment gets paid for how????!!!???? Not by charging 50 bux or even 100 bux for an hour of time including having to BS with the customer for 1/2 of that hour.

[F-BIRD'88]

In a gold rush, the guy who sells the shovels makes the most money.
A cylinder head Flow Test and Report business can be just as profitable. You can avoid 90% of the "BS" sucking up all your time because you are not the port flow expert. You are not selling horsepower, not selling port flow numbers.. You are not porting cylinder heads. You are providing a Flow Test- Report service.

[frnkeore]

Don't worry about it racer 97, this kind of stuff ALWAYS happens!

So, all you bigger/better, business owners, are on the floor actually WORKING?

The management part of a business is part of the overhead. Your job should be PR, quoting and helping the guys doing the work, with any problems that they will encounter. You should also be in the business because you LOVE IT. Your time should be work nothing but, pleasure, to yourself, because, that's what it's all about or at least, that how to make NOT work.

If your 3 months, backed up with work, what should you do? Jerk the customer around or, just maybe hire another guy? What makes the most since?

Each guy you hire, makes you even more profit, right? If you have 20k sq ft, you dam sure, better have the employees to handle the work and when you are stretched thin, on your time, what do you do, turn on the customer or hire a general manager?

[BOOT]

And that piece of equipment gets paid for how????!!!???? Not by charging 50 bux or even 100 bux for an hour of time including having to BS with the customer for 1/2 of that hour.

Almost everyone on this site buys tools & equipment, some that cost A lot more to make them money! Some things takes years to pay off before they start earning but it opens up the door to jobs that fill in gaps.

Also if there wasn't a lot of diy types then mine and other similar youtube channels would be dead.

[Chris_Hamilton]

If a Business Owner is providing a service for which he is popular enough to have a 3 month wait, then he is probably doing something right and has every right to continue doing as he is doing. If the business owner is satisfied with how things are he has no obligation to change.He has no obligation to hire people who may or may not be able to provide the level of quality and expertise that he provides. Just as a potential customer has no obligation to choose his business if they don't like the price, the customer service or wait time.

And a piece of equipment is bought to make money. Oftentimes purchasing a piece of equipment in a small business requires significant lifestyle changes for the purchaser. The business owner has every right to charge what he sees fit to recoup his investment. A piece of equipment exists in a business for a single purpose to help the business owner make money. It is not there to open doors for unrelated jobs, or to do for folks who think the owner is charging too much and should charge less and take 10, 15, 20 years to recoup their investment because it's convenient for them.

Nobody is under the obligation to choose a particular business, just as the business owner is under no obligation to conform to what he "should" be charging or people he chooses to do work for. A free and fair market system will sort all that out. Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

[fabr]

And that piece of equipment gets paid for how????!!!???? Not by charging 50 bux or even 100 bux for an hour of time including having to BS with the customer for 1/2 of that hour.

Almost everyone on this site buys tools & equipment, some that cost A lot more to make them money! Some things takes years to pay off before they start earning but it opens up the door to jobs that fill in gaps.

Also if there wasn't a lot of diy types then mine and other similar youtube channels would be dead.

You aren't a small shop owner are you.

[BradH]

If nothing else, this thread has certainly shown how differently business owners can view the need for, and benefit of, interacting with prospective or small-job customers.

[mag2555]

Ok F- bird88, then why have you not done such already if it looks like such a gold mine, or something with minimal head ache’s attached to it?

[hoffman900]

Each guy you hire, makes you even more profit, right? If you have 20k sq ft, you dam sure, better have the employees to handle the work and when you are stretched thin, on your time, what do you do, turn on the customer or hire a general manager?

You need to cover the additional employee's salary + benefits / insurance + taxes + resources consumed (consumables, bathroom supplies, etc.) in revenue and then profit on top of that. So an employee making $60k (which isn't even all that much) will need to bring in $100k+ in revenue for it to really make sense.

That's why someone making $20hr (which is low) might have a billable rate of $75/hr +

Hiring part time help just perpetuates many of the issues that is wrong with many parts of the economy, imo.

[PRH]

I flow test a head that’s not already here for other work anyway only a few times a year.

And the number of those that come in just for testing........ that are disassembled, clean, dry, and ready to test is probably like 1 out of 20 or 30.
Usually it’s a used, oily, assembled head.

Frankly, I’m okay with that job only showing up a few times a year.
I’m certainly not looking for more of it.

I’m much happier when a pair of Subaru heads come in for surfacing.