Camshaft lobe designers

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hoffman900
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by hoffman900 »

Also for those interested, I have Harvey's stuff downloaded and shared it here, along with the text from his now defunct site. You can still see the text using Wayback Machine, but can't see the images:
viewtopic.php?t=50056&start=60
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by Fusion Works »

What about Dave at Schneider Cams? Didn't he design his own lobes by hand in the early days?
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

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Fusion Works wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:52 pm What about Dave at Schneider Cams? Didn't he design his own lobes by hand in the early days?
Not sure.

Harvey had written down people he was associated with: https://web.archive.org/web/20111109215 ... unders.htm

Most of this list has since passed, retired, or moved on to other projects. He doesn't have a list of people that did his "cam school" and he sold software to. I know at least Dave Hsu (Skunk) is one: https://skunk2.com/products/dave-talks-cams-part-1/

John Andrews is obviously Andrews Products. Not sure what he designs other than the Harley stuff.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by cpmotors »

hoffman900 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:01 pm
Fusion Works wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:52 pm What about Dave at Schneider Cams? Didn't he design his own lobes by hand in the early days?
Not sure.

Harvey had written down people he was associated with: https://web.archive.org/web/20111109215 ... unders.htm

Most of this list has since passed, retired, or moved on to other projects. He doesn't have a list of people that did his "cam school" and he sold software to. I know at least Dave Hsu (Skunk) is one: https://skunk2.com/products/dave-talks-cams-part-1/

John Andrews is obviously Andrews Products. Not sure what he designs other than the Harley stuff.
Billy, Mike, and Dan Crower are probably the youngest that I can think of, and they're in their 50s now I believe.

Dema Elgin and Jimmy Dour, are in their 80s now, and Ed Iskendarian is 100?
My understanding is all the Harold lobe designs were all updated several years ago at Howards. Ben Herheim, who did the lobe work with help from a few more experienced guys, also ran several things at Howards until earlier this year when Andrews hired him to take over when David ? retires. Ben is early 40s, so probably the youngest guy doing it.
Spiro Jannings at Redline also does his own lobe designs, he learned from Elgin and Crane from what he has told me.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by hoffman900 »

So Elgin is interesting. Someone told me Dema has always been the machining end of Elgin, ut had help designing lobes, which was mostly Steve Gruenwald, who worked there for like twenty years. Then he did his own thing called Integral, before retiring maybe not even ten years into business (masters went to Megacycle, not sure where the other equipment went to. There was some Honda guy who lurked here for a minute who I think bought the machines. Username ‘Jetlag’).

Not sure if that’s true or not.

I wonder who Crane’s last designer was. Chase still lurks here so maybe he can fill in the designer history.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by mt-engines »

Does anyone have any information on what Glenn Steyers used to design his lobes? I know he came from Crane.

He had some really stable short duration 60mm .580" lobes. Unfortunately he passed early this year. Seemed like a very sharp guy.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by David Redszus »

Two names that belong on any list of top tier cam designers are:

John Andrews of Andrew Products. John produced the masters that were used
by many aftermarket cam grinders. A quick check of his website shows the cam
design programs available and cam design services.

Robert Norton, sells a cam design program called DYNACAM, which can be used to
design and build a wide range of cam lobe designs. A free student edition is available.

No matter who designs the cam, in the final analysis the lift derivatives (velocity, acceleration,
jerk) are all that really matter.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

David Redszus wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:33 am Two names that belong on any list of top tier cam designers are:

John Andrews of Andrew Products. John produced the masters that were used
by many aftermarket cam grinders. A quick check of his website shows the cam
design programs available and cam design services.

Robert Norton, sells a cam design program called DYNACAM, which can be used to
design and build a wide range of cam lobe designs. A free student edition is available.

No matter who designs the cam, in the final analysis the lift derivatives (velocity, acceleration,
jerk) are all that really matter.
The Andrews software he sells is quite crude. Just polynomials worked at lift so there is a lot of compromise in the shape to get smoothness at the boundaries.
One version inserts a circular arc to avoid inverse shapes.
Norton's stuff that I have seen is for low speed machines, not automotive engines.

The only limit to what you can do with Blairs software is the designers imagination.

With the recent developments in optimization methods, one could measure the dynamic response of the valve spring and let a routine adjust to avoid vibration. Probably start with HEEDS. Once you get some experience with it and figure out what it is doing, you could probably write something a lot more narrowly focused and less computationally expensive.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by EDC »

mt-engines wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:22 am Does anyone have any information on what Glenn Steyers used to design his lobes? I know he came from Crane.

He had some really stable short duration 60mm .580" lobes. Unfortunately he passed early this year. Seemed like a very sharp guy.
Worked with Glenn on a few Drag Week projects. Great man. I'm going to miss him.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by frnkeore »

Ben Herheim is a really great guy, he did a few cams for me. I was going to have him do another, a few months ago and he was gone. I wish I could get a hold of him again.

One name I don't see listed is John Delong. I sponsored a open comp car, in the '80's, that used his gear drive SBC cams. He also did a lot of Euro engines and was a well respected cam designer.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by frnkeore »

One more cam designer that I'm curious about, is Chet Herbert.

In the '60's, in SoCal, he was very prominent and ran dragsters out of his small shop. I lived only about 2 miles from his Anaheim shop. By best friend and his older brother (GM guy's) got me to get a roller cam for my 427 Ford. He hadn't perfected a way to hold the rollers at that time but, his methods, were stable.

He is said to be "The Father of the Roller Cam" (American V8's). His input into the race cam industry, should be note worthy.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by hoffman900 »

Delong is up there for camshaft designers of yesterday, but I'm talking today.

So far we have:

Mike Jones - Jones
Billy Godbold - Comp
Dan Crower - DCR
Kip Fabre - Cam Motion
Ben Herheim - Andrews
John Andrews - Andrews (sounds like they hired Ben to be trained as his replacement?)
Kiel Rasmussen - Kelford

that currently and are capable of designing lobes in the performance aftermarket. Does Brian Crower (Dan's cousin) design his own lobes as well?

Harvey, Harold, Delong, Bruce Crower, Steve Gruenwald, Hans Herman (retired?) and plenty of others have since passed or retired. Everyone else is just grinding the same stuff that was designed a decade + ago, or copying each other's work and grinding that, or there are a bunch more I'm missing who do contract work or are hiding behind the curtain somewhere.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

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hoffman900 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:29 pm Delong is up there for camshaft designers of yesterday, but I'm talking today.

So far we have:

Mike Jones - Jones
Billy Godbold - Comp
Dan Crower - DCR
Kip Fabre - Cam Motion
Ben Herheim - Andrews
John Andrews - Andrews (sounds like they hired Ben to be trained as his replacement?)
Kiel Rasmussen - Kelford

that currently and are capable of designing lobes in the performance aftermarket. Does Brian Crower (Dan's cousin) design his own lobes as well?

Harvey, Harold, Delong, Bruce Crower, Steve Gruenwald, Hans Herman (retired?) and plenty of others have since passed or retired. Everyone else is just grinding the same stuff that was designed a decade + ago, or copying each other's work and grinding that, or there are a bunch more I'm missing who do contract work or are hiding behind the curtain somewhere.
I should add Brian Kurn did some design work between his Roush and ECR stints. I believe Charlie Wescott Jr. has done some design work as well.
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by volodkovich »

In New Zealand we have a few people I am aware of that are capable of properly designing cam lobes. All are ex-Kelford. I'd like to correct that Kiel is the designer at Kelford. In fact he is the very knowledgeable salesmen & tech support. The designer is actually Thomas Goatley, who I trained when I left Kelford in 2014.

-Peter Kennelly - now runs Kennelly Cams.
-Robbie Whitley (me) - I now have my own business WhitleyTune, most of my time is spent designing & investment casting one-off intake manifolds / IR setups. I do offer a profile design service but cannot grind my own cams yet as my custom CNC cam grinder is still a work in progress.
-Thomas Goatley - Current Kelford lobe designer.

We all use the same design program, which is polynomial or trapozodial based and has been around for quite some time and still being improved upon. I am unaware of other cam companies using it but I do know that it has a fairly dedicated user base around the world.

Tom and myself might be the youngest in the game being early-mid 30's?
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Re: Camshaft lobe designers

Post by hoffman900 »

volodkovich wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:17 pm In New Zealand we have a few people I am aware of that are capable of properly designing cam lobes. All are ex-Kelford. I'd like to correct that Kiel is the designer at Kelford. In fact he is the very knowledgeable salesmen & tech support. The designer is actually Thomas Goatley, who I trained when I left Kelford in 2014.

-Peter Kennelly - now runs Kennelly Cams.
-Robbie Whitley (me) - I now have my own business WhitleyTune, most of my time is spent designing & investment casting one-off intake manifolds / IR setups. I do offer a profile design service but cannot grind my own cams yet as my custom CNC cam grinder is still a work in progress.
-Thomas Goatley - Current Kelford lobe designer.

We all use the same design program, which is polynomial or trapozodial based and has been around for quite some time and still being improved upon. I am unaware of other cam companies using it but I do know that it has a fairly dedicated user base around the world.

Tom and myself might be the youngest in the game being early-mid 30's?
Thanks, Robbie. Didn't realize that about Kiel. I did remember there was a former Kelford designer who was doing a lot of Datsun intakes now, who posted here at one point, but I couldn't remember your username and whether you were still here.

I know you guys are a resourceful bunch over (down?) there, so not surprised there are a few of you.

The intakes look great, btw!
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