Camshaft lobe designers

[hoffman900]

With the buyouts, people passing, people retiring, curious as to who is left designing camshaft lobes. Ones that I know;

Mike Jones - Jones Cam Design
Billy Godbold - Comp Cams
Kip Fabre - Cam Motion
Danny Crower - DCR

LSM, Web, Megacycle (does Jim design the cams?), Bullet, Elgin (I thought Steve Gruenwald did the designs for Dema?), Schrick, Cat, Kelford, Piper, Newman, Andrews, Howards, etc. ?

Are most of these outfits hiring consultants, living off legacy designs and spec'ing them in other applications, etc?

[Stan Weiss]

Bob,
I believe before Harold passed he taught Jeff from Koerner Racing Engines how to use his software to design lobes.

Stan

[PackardV8]

With the buyouts, people passing, people retiring, curious as to who is left designing camshaft lobes. Ones that I know;

Mike Jones - Jones Cam Design
Billy Godbold - Comp Cams
Kip Fabre - Cam Motion
Danny Crower - DCR

LSM, Web, Megacycle (does Jim design the cams?), Bullet, Elgin (I thought Steve Gruenwald did the designs for Dema?), Schrick, Cat, Kelford, Piper, Newman, Andrews, Howards, etc. ?

Are most of these outfits hiring consultants, living off legacy designs and spec'ing them in other applications, etc?

And the majority just take the easy way, copying the profiles from the few who know how.

jack vines

[CamKing]

A bunch of them went to Harvey Crane's Cam Design school, and used his cam design software.
Others just use one of the other cam design programs that are available.
Very, very few have their own proprietary cam design software.

[hoffman900]

A bunch of them went to Harvey Crane's Cam Design school, and used his cam design software.
Others just use one of the other cam design programs that are available.
Very, very few have their own proprietary cam design software.

Well looking at stuff from a few, a lot of them look very similar. Some look like they just cut and paste ramps from one application and "glue" them on to another, others just copy lobes from someone else, some give it the "it's close enough" from another application.

Was jut curious is all. I would be surprised if there were ten people in the US who could design lobes, and less than five who could do it very well.

edit: Forgot Mike Ingram, who posts here.

Does Ben Sloe (spl?) design cams still? I believe he worked with Harold at CCC and went to Howards, when Arrington sold everything.

[PackardV8]

Was jut curious is all. I would be surprised if there were ten people in the US who could design lobes, and less than five who could do it very well.

Maybe who are working in the aftermarket today and would do it upon request at a price you and I can afford. There are probably that many at Ford and at GM at any given time. They have to work within an envelope most of our aftermarket gurus probably couldn't begin to match. I remember fifteen years back when GM was developing a VVT 4-cam V6, the variables required a supercomputer program. The result was a generic normally aspirated production engine/transmission which made 1.5 horsepower per cube, would run on regular fuel and shifted at 7,000.

[hoffman900]

Was jut curious is all. I would be surprised if there were ten people in the US who could design lobes, and less than five who could do it very well.

Maybe who are working in the aftermarket today and would do it upon request at a price you and I can afford. There are probably that many at Ford and at GM at any given time. They have to work within an envelope most of our aftermarket gurus probably couldn't begin to match. I remember fifteen years back when GM was developing a VVT 4-cam V6, the variables required a supercomputer program. The result was a generic production engine/transmission which made 1.5 horsepower per cube, would run on regular fuel and shifted at 7,000.

Oh yes, I meant performance aftermarket designers, not OEM's.

[PackardV8]

Oh yes, I meant performance aftermarket designers, not OEM's.

Mike, Stan and a couple other aftermarket cam designers could tell you stories about the skunk works projects they've done for OEMs, but then they'd have to kill you.

[pastry_chef]

I wonder what program this is?

April 25, 2009 by UDharold - "I am still using the commercially-available program, and all my cams since 1995 have been designed on it. I paid $10,000 for it."

I believe before Harold passed he taught Jeff from Koerner Racing Engines how to use his software to design lobes.

I'd have to hear this from Jeff to have any trust in it. The person who stated this also said Jeff has access to Harold's newest designs , even more recent than the CCC lobes. Yet Paul Carter who works directly with Jeff orders cams from Lunati. It would make no sense.

[hoffman900]

I wonder what program this is?

April 25, 2009 by UDharold - "I am still using the commercially-available program, and all my cams since 1995 have been designed on it. I paid $10,000 for it."

I thought Harold used his DOS base stuff right up until the end.

I know COMP uses Blair's program (at least what I've been able to see in screenshots), which I'm sure a lot use that one.

Mike has his own program.

Cat Cams apparently has their own program as well.

I can't imagine too many run Harvey's program anymore, that was DOS based I believe as well.

Honda has their own program using Bezier curves, or at least, they did for certain applications.

Obviously Andrews has their own.

[pastry_chef]

Here is the thread where Harold stated that -- 11:46 a.m.
viewtopic.php?start=195&t=15840

[Stan Weiss]

I wonder what program this is?

April 25, 2009 by UDharold - "I am still using the commercially-available program, and all my cams since 1995 have been designed on it. I paid $10,000 for it."

I believe before Harold passed he taught Jeff from Koerner Racing Engines how to use his software to design lobes.

I'd have to hear this from Jeff to have any trust in it. The person who stated this also said Jeff has access to Harold's newest designs , even more recent than the CCC lobes. Yet Paul Carter who works directly with Jeff orders cams from Lunati. It would make no sense.

Mike,
Be interesting to know what is what. I don't believe they have a cam grinder. Paul has used a number of the Lunati cams and had very good results with them.

Stan

[hoffman900]

Harold did some lobes for Lunati after CCC, and as far as my knowledge goes, were the last commercially available lobes he designed. These would be the "TL2" and "TR2" families.

https://tech.lunatipower.com/new-lunati ... race-cams/

NEW LUNATI TL2 & TR2 CAMS FOR SMALL- & BIG-BLOCK CHEVROLET RACING ENGINES: MORE HIGH-LIFT AREA SHOWS GAINS

Olive Branch, MS: The latest Lunati asymmetrical camshafts, the new TL2 and the TR2, designed for small- and big-block Chevrolet racing engines, are quite the marvels.

The TL denotes Lunati’s cam series for solid flat tappets, the TR designation represents solid roller tappets, and the numeral 2 stands for second generation. Both series of camshafts are designed using the latest technology and feature increased lobe lift—therefore greater valve lift. They are specifically developed for short track Modified applications, Dirt Late Models, Sprint cars, and drag and street-strip vehicles.

Depending on valve train weight these new TL2 and TR2 camshafts provide stability up to 8,800rpm. Furthermore, included within their 30 new part numbers, Lunati has introduced smaller base circle designs that provide extra clearance in stroker engines. TL2 prices start at $187.06 and TR2 at $337.16 with custom grinds available as further attractive options.

Lunati’s design begins at the first valve moment of the cycle, the exhaust opening point. By deliberately delaying the opening point they generate more torque from the power stroke, consequently adding more power to the crank. This process occurs throughout the rpm band and is effective as long as the exhaust gases can be properly scavenged from the chamber at high rpm.

Then, as expected, they open the intake valve before Top Dead Center. But they open it late to reduce the effects of reversion entering the intake port. They also open it FAST, inducing earlier air flow and providing more high-lift area (also known as more area under the curve). This occurs after TDC as the piston heads downward on its intake stroke, which creates high velocity in the port. If a port has high velocity and the intake valve has lots of high-lift area, the port fills the cylinder faster and has more time to fill it—thus increasing the engine’s potential horsepower and torque.

They then close the intake valve gently to prevent valve bounce and facilitate valve train reliability. Of the four timing points the exhaust closing point has the least power-producing effect on the valve train. Yet in this area Lunati exercises special care to ensure exhaust valve reliability.

All the CCC stuff should have gone to Howards. Harold probably had one off designs he did for people... I think I remember he was doing it at CCC or sending the files to Howards to cut. Likely those went there. Obviously all the old Ultradyne stuff went to Bullet, but Harold himself said he made those designs obsolete.

I'm not sure who designed the LLH and LLS stuff for Lunati in the 2016 time frame. Again, there are a few cam lobe designers that are likely doing contract work out there.

Billy Godbold's / Comp's "Low Shock" stuff is similar to Harold's designs, but flipped backwards. He's covered in places how those came to be.

Not sure who Web uses. They seem to have a pretty big catalogue, as does Megacycle. I do know Megacycle bought Integral's masters (Steve Gruenwald), so they are sitting on a bunch of his stuff, but they have the ability to produce new designs. Not sure if Jimmy Dour does himself or he has someone helping him.

Hans Herman did contract work for people, but I can't imagine he's still designing lobes.

Billy, Mike, and Dan Crower are probably the youngest that I can think of, and they're in their 50s now I believe.

Dema Elgin and Jimmy Dour, are in their 80s now, and Ed Iskendarian is 100?

[Stan Weiss]

Bob,
I don't know if they are called something else or not. But the Lunati lobes I was talking about above are the VooDoo series that Harold did.

Stan

[hoffman900]

Bob,
I don't know if they are called something else or not. But the Lunati lobes I was talking about above are the VooDoo series that Harold did.

Stan

I believe he did those before CCC (Arrington). After Arrington got out of the cam business and sold to Howards, and Dacaman12 went there as well (he designed with Harold at CCC), Harold did those TL2 and TR2 Lunati lobes, and I think did whatever people had him design, with Howards cutting them for people.

"Dacaman12" in this thread, with Harold, Mike, etc. Probably one of the better threads on here, imo:
viewtopic.php?t=11713

I have just gotten off the phone with them, and they bought the whole kit and kaboodle from Custom Camshafts, Inc, of Martinsville, Va.
This includes the Landis 3L, the Adcole, all the cores and spare parts, and over 100 of my cam designs.
I will know more over the next few days.

UDHarold

* edit: I think Dacaman12's name is Mike Shoe? . I thought he was someone else, but some internet sleuthing found that name.