2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by maxracesoftware »

checkout what a "State-of-the-Art" NHRA Stocker can run with only
BES's 283cid with 4GC Carb Dual-Plane Manifold 11:1 CR
Peak TQ = 342.0 at 5000 RPM
Peak HP = 373.0 at 6500 RPM
at 3400 Lbs w/Driver

pretty close to Monte Carlo ET's
viewtopic.php?p=907142#p907142
 
NHRA283cidStocker.jpg
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

vortecpro wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:50 am
Dragginwagon406 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:37 am
maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:47 am

the Dyno Sheet shows a bunch of really low BSFC readings
hard to say whats going on there ??
Inertia Factor= 1.27

Wallace Calculator shows : between 476.4 HP -to- 516.4 HP
... i get close to same thing as the Wallace Calculator

AL 427_Wallace_Calculator.jpg

AL 427_ETA_487HP.jpg





 

He would need to Run something like these 2 Simulations
to show up what's on his Dyno Sheet :

AL 427_ETA_Pro.jpg
AL 427_QuarterPro.jpg
That’s great! Thank you, greatly appreciated.

His ET outperforms his mph, quite the opposite of my results. To me, It would appear that there must be an explanation, either he let off before the end, or the engine is going flat somewhere (maybe even at high rpm), or maybe a really bad headwind?

Would you tend to agree? I’ll graph his against mine tonight, should be interesting.
How do you figure that? 1320/118.24=11.16 And again thats just a jumping off point, typically when I have 119 MPH HP I have a 10.90 car, look closely at Larry's simulations of the first 60 and 330 feet. Its one thing to make power-its another thing to utilize the power.
The answer is obvious, I don’t know what I’m talking about :)

I was look long at the hp dropping off in Larry’s screenshot of Al’s incremental hp/distance, not Wallace.

From a brief look, mine and his drop off in a similar manner. Once I graph it, maybe we’ll see if there’s any appreciable difference. Maybe it’s normal? It’s the first time I’ve seen data like this so it could be inherent to the algorithm.

One thing is for sure, our first 1/8 miles couldn’t be more different.
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

Here you go...

Like I said, couldn't be more different.
Stall and Gear Comparison.png

Stall and Gear Comparison - ET.png
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1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

408 Nova wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:31 am
vortecpro wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:32 pm Take a 1970 Monte Carlo on street radial tires, bone stock survivor with a 2.56 gear, Turbo 350 with the factory stock GM TQ converter, add a 496 with 9.8 compression with a 228 @ .050 hyd roller and GM 049 heads-will it run 11s?
An interesting comparison would be my 2019 Dodge Challenger 1320.

It run almost exactly what this Monte Carlo runs.

This Dodge weighs around 4500lbs with me in it. It has 485 hp net, 8 forward gears, stock 2200 converter, and a 3.09 rear gear on factory 28.5" tall drag radials.

On average, it sixty's a 1.65, 1/8 mile et is a 7.60 at 93 mph, and 11.85 at 115 in the 1/4 mile, in 1000 foot air.


I'm thoroughly impressed with this Monte Carlo for sure.
Didn’t realize the Challenger 1320s ran that well.

Considering the air, you’ve got me covered, for the time being.

I’d try to tree to tree you and enjoy the side by side race, hoping I had enough track to run you down after mid-track.
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:47 am
Dragginwagon406 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:29 pm
maxracesoftware wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:04 pm i need more Info to be sure of my results :
1]= what are Trans Gear Ratios
2]= whats the rear gear ratio
3]= whats the Stall RPM
4]= whats the Shift RPM
5]= whats the Cross or Finish Line RPM
Amend to 3800 lbs
TH350, 2.52, 1.52
411 gears 9 in
4000 stall (4500 pk tq from dyno)
shift rpm is 6000 2nd, 6500 drive
Cross the stripe at 6500
the Dyno Sheet shows a bunch of really low BSFC readings
hard to say whats going on there ??
Inertia Factor= 1.27

Wallace Calculator shows : between 476.4 HP -to- 516.4 HP
... i get close to same thing as the Wallace Calculator

AL 427_Wallace_Calculator.jpg

AL 427_ETA_487HP.jpg





 

He would need to Run something like these 2 Simulations
to show up what's on his Dyno Sheet :

AL 427_ETA_Pro.jpg
AL 427_QuarterPro.jpg
This compares Al's MC and my MC fairly well.

It also shows why you can't "cam up" when running the car like this - the first 150' really makes or breaks your effort, regardless of hp.
Stall and Gear Comparison - hp-mph-distance.png
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1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by BobbyB »

Dragginwagon406 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:03 am
maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:47 am
Dragginwagon406 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:29 pm

Amend to 3800 lbs
TH350, 2.52, 1.52
411 gears 9 in
4000 stall (4500 pk tq from dyno)
shift rpm is 6000 2nd, 6500 drive
Cross the stripe at 6500
the Dyno Sheet shows a bunch of really low BSFC readings
hard to say whats going on there ??
Inertia Factor= 1.27

Wallace Calculator shows : between 476.4 HP -to- 516.4 HP
... i get close to same thing as the Wallace Calculator

AL 427_Wallace_Calculator.jpg

AL 427_ETA_487HP.jpg





 

He would need to Run something like these 2 Simulations
to show up what's on his Dyno Sheet :

AL 427_ETA_Pro.jpg
AL 427_QuarterPro.jpg
This compares Al's MC and my MC fairly well.

It also shows why you can't "cam up" when running the car like this - the first 150' really makes or breaks your effort, regardless of hp.

Stall and Gear Comparison - hp-mph-distance.png
Are you flooring the accelerator on this run?
Do you have a torque curve for your engine from an engine dyno?
Do you have an estimated torque curve for your engine generated by a computer program?
Fun stuff!
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

BobbyB wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:32 am
Dragginwagon406 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:03 am
maxracesoftware wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:47 am

the Dyno Sheet shows a bunch of really low BSFC readings
hard to say whats going on there ??
Inertia Factor= 1.27

Wallace Calculator shows : between 476.4 HP -to- 516.4 HP
... i get close to same thing as the Wallace Calculator

AL 427_Wallace_Calculator.jpg

AL 427_ETA_487HP.jpg





 

He would need to Run something like these 2 Simulations
to show up what's on his Dyno Sheet :

AL 427_ETA_Pro.jpg
AL 427_QuarterPro.jpg
This compares Al's MC and my MC fairly well.

It also shows why you can't "cam up" when running the car like this - the first 150' really makes or breaks your effort, regardless of hp.

Stall and Gear Comparison - hp-mph-distance.png
Are you flooring the accelerator on this run?
Do you have a torque curve for your engine from an engine dyno?
Do you have an estimated torque curve for your engine generated by a computer program?
Fun stuff!
Yes

Yes, supplied to Larry for the simulation.

Larry (max race software) uses his software to calculate hp, speed, and ETs (among other useful information) at interval distances, based on known dyno numbers, a known time slip, and various detailed input criteria, or that’s the way I understand it.

I graphed the information given by Larry to then compare a fellow MC owner’s results with mine.

Our hp (mph) are not too far off, so It makes for great internet discussion about what I’ve left on the table in due to incorrect gear, stall converter and tires. It also helps people understand what it takes to run a good ET within these poor constraints, and what I need to improve in order to go quicker within these constraints.
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by maxracesoftware »

MonteCarlo Stall and Gear Comparison - ET.jpg
Dragginwagon406 ,
where's the "ET" spike coming from in your Graph ? , especially in AL's ( red line ) , just before 1000 Ft mark ??

i don't see any "spikes" or "dips" in my Data around that area

here's 4 more examples from 873 Feet -to- 1000 Feet distance for AL simulation :
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_873to904.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_905to936.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_937to968.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_969to1000Ft.jpg
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

maxracesoftware wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:14 pm MonteCarlo Stall and Gear Comparison - ET.jpg

Dragginwagon406 ,
where's the "ET" spike coming from in your Graph ? , especially in AL's ( red line ) , just before 1000 Ft mark ??

i don't see any "spikes" or "dips" in my Data around that area

here's 4 more examples from 873 Feet -to- 1000 Feet distance for AL simulation :

VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_873to904.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_905to936.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_937to968.jpg
VortecPro_1970_MonteCarlo_969to1000Ft.jpg
Thanks for your efforts.

I had noticed that anomaly too, and meant to check on it. It was due to a couple typing errors. Here’s the correction. I created the graphs from the simpler data, not foot by foot.
BDD5547A-2A54-4FB5-9468-A7CCED195F2B.jpeg
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1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by maxracesoftware »

Thanks for your efforts.
I had noticed that anomaly too, and meant to check on it. It was due to a couple typing errors.
Here’s the correction. I created the graphs from the simpler data, not foot by foot.
thanks for the correction !
and what Software are you using to create your Graphs ?? Excel or something else ?

i just changed my Software by adding 2 more Feet distances : 703 Feet and 1080 Feet
703 Feet is about half-way between 660 and 745 Feet
1080 Feet is about half-way between 1000 and 1160 Feet
....... so that the HP Data Curve looks smoother transition to the User
ETA2022_new_distances.jpg
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

maxracesoftware wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:04 pm
Thanks for your efforts.
I had noticed that anomaly too, and meant to check on it. It was due to a couple typing errors.
Here’s the correction. I created the graphs from the simpler data, not foot by foot.
thanks for the correction !
and what Software are you using to create your Graphs ?? Excel or something else ?

i just changed my Software by adding 2 more Feet distances : 703 Feet and 1080 Feet
703 Feet is about half-way between 660 and 745 Feet
1080 Feet is about half-way between 1000 and 1160 Feet
....... so that the HP Data Curve looks smoother transition to the User

ETA2022_new_distances.jpg
The graphs were made using Google sheets. I typed the data from my phone at table after dinner (hence the miss-key).
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by maxracesoftware »

The graphs were made using Google sheets. I typed the data from my phone at table after dinner (hence the miss-key).
i checked out "Google Sheets"
seems like thats a lot of typing you did , especially on the screen and keyboard size of a Cell Phone :shock:
much appreciated ... the Graphs look great !
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

maxracesoftware wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:20 pm
The graphs were made using Google sheets. I typed the data from my phone at table after dinner (hence the miss-key).
i checked out "Google Sheets"
seems like thats a lot of typing you did , especially on the screen and keyboard size of a Cell Phone :shock:
much appreciated ... the Graphs look great !
It was a fair bit of typing, but when you're OCD, it's nothing.

I know, you know.
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by BLSTIC »

An interesting point of comparison, despite the higher MPH per distance at the top end, at no point while Al was racing was Mike reeling him in. From Mike's point of view Al was *always* pulling away.

Doesn't mean anything, it would be just interesting to see the track length required for them to be equal in speed at some point in *time* then another when Mike finally actually passes Al.
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Re: 2.56 Gear, Stock Converter, 4100 Pounds, NA 11s?

Post by Dragginwagon406 »

BLSTIC wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:05 am An interesting point of comparison, despite the higher MPH per distance at the top end, at no point while Al was racing was Mike reeling him in. From Mike's point of view Al was *always* pulling away.

Doesn't mean anything, it would be just interesting to see the track length required for them to be equal in speed at some point in *time* then another when Mike finally actually passes Al.
In this case, our hps are so similar that even after I'm starting to put the power down properly, there is minimal difference to achieve a meaningful shortening of the gap...until I hit drive, and depending on how high his rpm could go.

We know I should be able to hit 142 mph in the half mile, this will make a dent in his lead but no where overcome his 100' lead.

We need to find the time it would take Al to go from 1320' to 2640' at a rate which peaks at about 125 mph (estimated terminal velocity).
I would start from about 1220' to unknown distance (we know my 1/4 to 1/2 mile time would be 18.65-11.84 and top out at 142 mph, but my clock starts at about 1220' and ends when Al covers the second 1/4 mile - about 7 seconds, give or take).
1.87, 11.72 @ 120, 4110 lbs, 2.56 gears, stock stall, 225/70-15 Cooper Cobras
My sleeper video - https://youtu.be/tcOh6gQ_K_E
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