Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

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steve cowan
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by steve cowan »

ChopperScott wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 9:08 pm
steve cowan wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:00 pm I hope that was not you on the limiter in the water box :o
I hate to admit it, but yes. Like you said, everything is different. I wasn't use to it revving so quick, compared to the last combo. Takes some getting used to.

Rpm at stripe? My data acquisition is a little slow these days. A little more time behind the wheel to get back on point.

I'm heading down to Atco for competition tomorrow with NETO at the Yesteryear Drags. Track prep should be much better. I'll lower air pressure in the rear tires a few psi and hope for the best.
I understand you got a couple of things to sort out,
But if you are turning more than 6500 rpm across the finish line and not running around 135 mph something needs to be looked at .
When you have new engine,converter,trans ratio,rear gear ratio etc you don't have a base line to start from.
I know you probably don't want to hear this,but if you get lost don't be afraid to go back to old combo drive line with new engine and start from scratch.
Just my opinion best of luck.
Keep us up to speed with your testing :D.
steve c
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

Ran the car at Atco yesterday with NETO at the Yesteryear drags. Essentially no changes for competition day. Car ran a best of 10.23 @ 131. Rpm's through the traps are about 6800. It'll be a few weeks before I get the car to the track again. Next time out, I'll run it with the Quick Fuel 950, and move the Instant center further forward and down. I'm also going to run it with a drop base air cleaner and the hood on.
10.23 Neto Atco.JPG
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'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by Monza355 »

You have a great baseline to work with. I would like to see the 5.29 gears in the car again and let the converter do the work on the top end.
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by Rick! »

6800rpm, 8% convertor slip and 32.2" tires maths out right on 131mph, ignoring the 60ft trap timers.
7050rpm will get you 136mph.
5.29s will need 8100rpm and change which I'm not sure your engine is built for that.
If you are seeing an mph rise of 25mph from 660 -1320, there's not much left there unless that 950 is going to make more power. (you have a pan for sealing the carb to the hood, yes?)
Getting the 60ft and 330ft straightened out will get you where you want the car to perform. What is the convertor stalling at?
I'm not sure if lowering and extending the IC will get more weight on the rears but at least it will make another data point to help formulate the next adjustment.
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by PRH »

Has the car been scaled since the engine swap?

It’ll get a little heavier with the hood on it, yes?
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by steve cowan »

ChopperScott wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:39 am Ran the car at Atco yesterday with NETO at the Yesteryear drags. Essentially no changes for competition day. Car ran a best of 10.23 @ 131. Rpm's through the traps are about 6800. It'll be a few weeks before I get the car to the track again. Next time out, I'll run it with the Quick Fuel 950, and move the Instant center further forward and down. I'm also going to run it with a drop base air cleaner and the hood on.

10.23 Neto Atco.JPG
I think Rick makes some good points,
Scott I think your car is awesome so please don't take this the wrong way, hp to car weight says you are 100hp off.
My opinion you have to work out what rpm you want to turn at the big end 500 - 1500 rpm ??? Past peak hp
And work from there.
Startline ratio is key and I think 32" tyre and 4.5 gear won't really work out the best.
I think your car has so much potential to run fast and I appreciate your effort.
Be prepared to do alot of A-B-A testing from here on.
steve c
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

Rick! wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:58 pm 6800rpm, 8% convertor slip and 32.2" tires maths out right on 131mph, ignoring the 60ft trap timers.
7050rpm will get you 136mph.
5.29s will need 8100rpm and change which I'm not sure your engine is built for that.
If you are seeing an mph rise of 25mph from 660 -1320, there's not much left there unless that 950 is going to make more power. (you have a pan for sealing the carb to the hood, yes?)
Getting the 60ft and 330ft straightened out will get you where you want the car to perform. What is the convertor stalling at?
I'm not sure if lowering and extending the IC will get more weight on the rears but at least it will make another data point to help formulate the next adjustment.
I was thinking of tire change. M/T discontinued the tire I run. A 31' Hoosier Quick Time Pro has a 30.9" diameter. That would bring the rpm's up at the traps.

NO, I don't have a plan for sealing the carb to the hood. I know the heat is going to kill some power. A drop base, 3" tall filter, and filter top isn't going to help either. That's why I'm running hoodless at the moment. If I cut a hole, a large portion of the air cleaner would be exposed above the cowl. That would be easy, and could work. Sealing the carb to the hood, so It can run filterless would be the best choice though. I should work on that.

I had the launch control set at 5300 at ATCO (5500 at LVD). 60ft was 1.40.

With the large difference in power from the previous combo, I feel the suspension needs to be addressed. I'm on the fence for ordering a set of 2" drop spindles for the front from Alston's Chassisworks.
'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

PRH wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:05 pm Has the car been scaled since the engine swap?

It’ll get a little heavier with the hood on it, yes?
I jumped on the scale, before they shut it off, at the end of the day with an empty tank of fuel. It was 3030#

It is a lift-off fiberglass hood. I haven't weighed it. 10# maybe?
'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
Chopper Air Port 917-589-1278
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by 6.50camaro »

ChopperScott, what is your present spindle and brake set-up? I have a pair of McGaughy's forged 2" drop spindles for 2nd gen f body. I'd be willing to let go reasonable. They have never been used, they have been modified for a Wilwood brake kit that had 12.19 dia. x .810 thick rotor and Dynalite 4 piston calibers. Not sure of the Wilwood part#. I could check that. Dan
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

Monza355 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 11:51 am You have a great baseline to work with. I would like to see the 5.29 gears in the car again and let the converter do the work on the top end.
I think the 5.29's would be too much gear. I wouldn't mind trying them for the 1/8 mile. But first, I need to get the launch dialed in better.
'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
Chopper Air Port 917-589-1278
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

6.50camaro wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 4:54 pm ChopperScott, what is your present spindle and brake set-up? I have a pair of McGaughy's forged 2" drop spindles for 2nd gen f body. I'd be willing to let go reasonable. They have never been used, they have been modified for a Wilwood brake kit that had 12.19 dia. x .810 thick rotor and Dynalite 4 piston calibers. Not sure of the Wilwood part#. I could check that. Dan
I'm still running stock, yes stock, front brakes, spindles, and control arms. The ones you have wouldn't work. I would love to do a complete upgrade. I really wish I had unlimited funds. At under $500, the Alston spindles for OEM brakes seems to be the most cost effective, short-term solution. If I remember correctly, the springs in the car are for a late 70's G-body six-cylinder. The only parts in the front end that are aftermarket are the Koni SPA1 drag shocks, and Energy Suspension polyurethane bump stops.
'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
Chopper Air Port 917-589-1278
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

Speaking of front ends…
23687814-67D1-4290-8787-30C38B2B3235.png
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'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
Chopper Air Port 917-589-1278
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by ChopperScott »

A few notable points... Dyno hp was achieved without any front drive accessories. In the car there is a belt driven water pump, alternator, and power steering pump, with performance ratio pulleys. This car is 'Pro-Street' and street legal. I'm also running pump gas at the track...Sunoco Ultra 93.
'73 Camaro Z/28 NETO/N
434 SBC 11:1, 1.294, 6.178 @ 108.87, 9.81 @ 134.93 (3060#, Naturally Aspirated, Sunoco Ultra 94)
Chopper Air Port 917-589-1278
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by PRH »

Scott I think your car is awesome so please don't take this the wrong way, hp to car weight says you are 100hp off.
So far, I’m basically on that same train of thought.

I use the Moroso PS calculator to get a feel for what I think the performance should be.
With the dyno I use, the better running combos will run very close to what the Moroso calculator says.

I feel if the dyno numbers are at least reasonably legit, and you’re not running at an altitude adjusted track....... and provided the car is set up reasonably well, you should be able to run solidly within 10% of the calculator.
So, 670hp...... take off 10%..... you’re at 603hp.
603hp at 3050lbs shows 9.78@137.
131mph is showing 528hp.
To this point, the numbers really don’t add up.

A similar cube engine(451), making similar power(650hp), running in the Ohio area has gone 10.07@132, at 3470lbs....... which is showing 617hp....... well within “the 10% rule”.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: Dyno tuned 434 SBC 11:1 AFR 245 Solid Roller

Post by 1980RS »

How much is there in driveline loss though.
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